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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 16:28 
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The profound impact is the 24 will hold its value unlike the other jets that you mentioned. Pilatus has a history of creating their own markets and preserving aircraft values for owners by not flooding the market just because they can. They are a private company focused on long term results.

So it will have a profound effect on a small number of owners. Kind of like a Porsche or Lamborghini. Pilatus is aiming for a niche market, a high cost, versatile, large single pilot airplane.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of the market will remain basically unaffected. Textron, Embraer, Honda, etc, don't see this as a major threat or market stealer for the reasons you cite, namely the lack of production volume.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 19:28 
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Gotcha, Pilatus is saying they can go up to 100/year when they get their new factory online in June.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 19:57 
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The PC24 will slay. Kill it in the market. But it won't be for it's good looks. Looks like a Brasilia had a love child with an MD-80.

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 20:22 
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The PC24 will slay. Kill it in the market. But it won't be for it's good looks. Looks like a Brasilia had a love child with an MD-80.


Adam, have you seen an optometrist lately?

;)

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:00 
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Pilatus is saying they can go up to 100/year when they get their new factory online in June.

I sense a clever strategy here.

Pilatus sold 84 positions in 2014 and then closed the order book. They say it will take 3 years to deliver those aircraft.

And yet, they are building a factory which is claimed to handle 100 aircraft per year.

At first, this sounds incongruous. But it is actually brilliant.

By closing the order book, Pilatus escaped the thing that has killed new plane introductions in the past, a large order book with contracts with prices potentially below cost. That killed Eclipse #1 and is hurting Cirrus SF50 right now.

Now what Pilatus can do is reopen the order book and set a new price and terms that reflect a profitable situation given what they know now AFTER completing the design. So they won't have hundreds of low margin orders on the books dragging them down.

And further, since the 84 original orders are spread out over 3 years, 28 per year, and the factory is supposedly good for ~100 per year, then they can intersperse the new orders among the old, thus not be saddled with only delivering low margin airplanes for a while before they really turn a profit. In effect, a years' delivery will be 28 at the old price, and 72 at the new, which should keep profits rolling in.

Of course, if the original price was profitable, and it seems that it should be, then they don't have to raise the price when the order nook reopens. Regardless, limiting the order book was a great risk reducer. The only negative effect is that Pilatus doesn't have a large order book to impress people with, but as an established maker, that isn't as much of a concern.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 13:52 
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Limiting the initial order gives Pilatus an opportunity to work out any issues with a new design after the airframe has operational history. A lot of the initial orders went to fleet operators that can collect data for Pilatus to make improvements before a lot of airframes are out with possible issues. In addition, owners that just paid 9m will have high expectations for aircraft support. Having fewer aircraft out will allow Pilatus to work out the logistics with service centers and build inventory of parts for aircraft support. A manufacturer cannot ship parts to service centers unless the aircraft is certified so they cannot build field inventory before aircraft go into operation.

Pilatus is a privately held company that’s focused on long term results so some of their decisions that may seem conservative or odd compared to their publicly held competitors that are focused on next quarters financial results.


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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 05:38 
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PC-24 is certified.

https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/en/new ... rtificates
Quote:
Historic Milestone in Swiss Economic History:

Pilatus Obtains PC-24 Type Certificates
On 7 December 2017 Pilatus obtained type certificates from the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and the US-American Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for the first ever Swiss business jet. Certification of the Super Versatile Jet prepares the ground for initial customer deliveries, which will see the PC-24 business jet take off from Central Switzerland for its entry on the global market.

In any project to develop a new aircraft, certification by the aviation authorities is by far the most important milestone, given that it means deliveries to customers may go ahead, generating revenue for the manufacturer. The PC-24 development project was officially announced in 2013, but work on the Super Versatile Jet has in fact been in progress for the past eleven and a half years.

Complex project with a tight schedule

The first PC-24 prototype completed its maiden flight in May 2015. All three prototypes used in the certification programme have flown a total of 2205 hours worldwide so far. Some flight tests were conducted in extreme environments: in icing conditions and very hot temperatures, at altitudes and speeds not usually encountered in everyday operations. Other tests have included bird impacts, structural stress tests, noise tests and general function. All this to prove that customers may depend on this aircraft to operate safely and reliably at all times, in line with statutory requirements. In fact, Pilatus test pilots took the aircraft to the very boundaries of its limits and even beyond, flying it in configurations and maneuvers forbidden to the commercial pilots who will subsequently occupy the cockpit.

Oscar J. Schwenk, Chairman at Pilatus, had this to say on receipt of the type certificate:

“The PC-24 is the first ever Pilatus business jet. Naturally, the requirements associated with obtaining certification for this sort of aircraft are extremely rigorous, and I need hardly mention that we faced some big challenges. In 2013 we announced that the PC-24 would be ready in 2017, and now, shortly before the end of the year, we have achieved exactly that. And all performance data promised to our first 84 customers have been achieved or even exceeded. The PC-24 delivers a maximum speed of 440 knots (815 km/h) compared to the contractually agreed 425 knots (787 km/h) – to cite just one example. That is pure Pilatus, and typical of the qualities which set us apart!”

Major investments in Switzerland and USA

Pilatus invested over 500 million Swiss francs of own funds in the PC-24 development programme. A further 150 million francs went into buildings and state-of-the-art production machinery at Stans in order to expand our PC-24 series production capacity in parallel. Pilatus currently has eight PC-24s on the assembly line in Stans, with 23 deliveries to customer around the world planned throughout 2018.

In the USA – one of the most important markets for the company – Pilatus invests in a new completions and support center. The interior design will be discussed with the PC-24 customers on site before implementation.

Schwenk comments further on achieving the milestone of certification:

“I’m extremely proud of my workforce, and would like to thank Pilatus owners, the two aviation authorities and our first 84 PC-24 customers for their trust and confidence in myself and my team. This project involved considerable risk, but we always believed 100 percent in our PC-24 and were prepared to go all the way to the limits of what we can reasonably do to ensure its success. Obtaining certification is our reward for so many years of untiring effort.”

First customer delivery

The very first PC-24 will be handed over to the American fractional aircraft ownership business PlaneSense® in Stans in December. The aircraft will then be flown to the USA in January 2018, for official delivery to the customer. The first business travelers will enjoy flying aboard it soon after, and may look forward to arriving at their destinations faster, thanks to the PC-24’s unique ability to use short runways. The PC-24’s superb flexibility will open up countless new, as yet unexplored opportunities – as a business jet, Medevac aircraft and for other special missions. That is precisely what really distinguishes the world’s first Super Versatile Jet by Pilatus!



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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 07:15 
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Amazing how fast they did it. But it is much easier and quicker to do it in EASA than FAA. The reciprocity gives them the FAA certification. Had they tried to do it here in the US, it would probably have taken 3x times as long. SF50 took 9 years.

I can't think of a single aircraft in FAA land that's been able to go from prototype to certification in 2 years time since the 80's. Can anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2017, 18:16 
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That’s a misguided post Adam...

The SF50’s development took place before, during, and after the recession. 9 years was a money problem.

FAA and EASA are good agencies with a lot of reciprocity.

E


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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2017, 08:20 
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I can't think of a single aircraft in FAA land that's been able to go from prototype to certification in 2 years time since the 80's. Can anyone?


I think Cub Crafters may have done it, but there is a huge difference in the level of complexity between a modernized super cub and a new clean sheet jet.

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 08 Aug 2019, 23:58 
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Still think it's kinda ugly for a jet, but man, what an impressive aircraft in capabilities.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/rHqyUWanxGo[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2019, 01:29 
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Still think it's kinda ugly for a jet, but man, what an impressive aircraft in capabilities.



Says the guy who wants a Piaggio......... :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 09 Aug 2019, 02:34 
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Says the guy who wants a Piaggio......... :shrug:

well played sir


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 Post subject: Re: Pilatus PC-24/-12 video
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2019, 03:16 
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Still think it's kinda ugly for a jet, but man, what an impressive aircraft in capabilities.



Says the guy who wants a Piaggio......... :shrug:


I'll take that on my catfish whiskers! ;)
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