25 Apr 2024, 04:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 11:04 |
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Joined: 09/05/09 Posts: 4111 Post Likes: +2752 Location: Small Town, NC
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Username Protected wrote: The 700's have some version 1.0 issues (low useful load, smaller cabin door, probably some less-than-optimal systems) But I bet they're pretty competitive with like price P46T's.
The big knock on TBM vs P46T has always been maintenance costs. As I understand the TBM (and Pilatus) market has long expected that aircraft be maintained in accordance with mfr maintenance plane like a twin turbine and a/c not doing so are penalized. Which leads to some $$$ maintenance decsions. I suspect a TBM bought well near TBO and then run in accordance with part 91 and nothing more would make a pretty economical plane. how do hot-sections come into play? if somebody buys one of these, flying it beyond TBO as part 91, do they still have to do the HS inspection?
_________________ "Find worthy causes in your life."
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 11:19 |
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Joined: 01/25/15 Posts: 218 Post Likes: +191
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Username Protected wrote: But lawsuits went towards Pilatus for designing a "dangerous" fuel system... If the pilot had listened to his fuel system he would not have crashed...........not having prist, unbalanced wings because of ice'd up fuel, his indicators screaming......and with 14 folks onboard..........simply unacceptable, especially if he was a paid pilot.
It was a very well prepared accident. There is a reason why the QRH procedure for fuel imbalance is "Land as soon as possible" and not "Land as soon as practical".
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 13:04 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11105 Post Likes: +7090 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: There is a reason why the QRH procedure for fuel imbalance is "Land as soon as possible" and not "Land as soon as practical". Indeed. A fuel imbalance should hardly ever occur. You get very, very accurate data for both wings (very easy fuel system as you touch nothing) and when there is any fuel imbalance there is normally a reason. The only two times it has happened to me is when I suspect I was fueled without Prist. I got an error on the fuel sensor and then a slight imbalance. Both were plain as day. PC12 has a very, very good fuel system IMHO.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 13:48 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11105 Post Likes: +7090 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: 6 souls on board: I'd prefer that you change your vernacular to people
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 13:55 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 6053 Post Likes: +4019 Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
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Dave, I've said all the below before I believe but their is some erroneous information on payloads on TBM's floating in this thread. As with many planes full fuel payload is short in some models. A/B in TBM are two. They however can with just a little lowering of fuel in tanks easily carry four with bags or with less fuel more folks over shorter distances. MB and I have 850's. Mine is basically 840lb useful with full fuel. Full fuel with no potty or co-pilot is not usually a bladder available trip for my wife or PAX's. We did make a long range flight into winter winds with full fuel, two people, bags and three adult dogs. 962nm flight into average 35kt headwind and landed VFR with 62 gallons on board. Full fuel in mine is 282 gallons. So I landed with my minimum fuel, 1 hour, in the mountains with VFR weather at destination. 4:36 ETE. Flight home from this destination was 3:00-10. I flight plan 302KTAS at 60GPH normally which gives a normal max cruise/climb no wind range of ~900nm and landing with ~90gallons. Which is a decent non mountain arrival IMC range max cruise. None of this following is KA type loads or speeds unless you're flying a souped up 200 or 350. Since my normal is 1-4 people the TBM any model would be satisfactory. I don't want to go any slower though. The older models, and mine, are temp limited in summer. My max cruise can be just lower than 300kts summer and the A models are closer to 275kts vs 285-90 in winter. Again my average TAS is ~302kts. Sometimes higher or lower. I do NOT push the limits and usually have 10 degrees to spare under max TQ for the conditions. Giving up several knots year round. Call me stupid. Speed is king but so is being careful of limits. Four people is comfortable load in the TBM, adults. 2-3 hour legs best for pax comfort. I'm guessing all the pilots on this board have done 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+ hour flights at some time. My personal max in the Mooney Ovation was 5:30. Same trip above heading east. Alone and landed with several hours fuel remaining but no more gatorade bottles....... A friend has over 4500 hours on his 1995 A model he bought in 96' and is still flying it. Sure gets the job done. All depends on the job...
_________________ Chuck KEVV
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 14:41 |
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Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2604 Post Likes: +2364 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
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Username Protected wrote: HSI times (and life limited parts) are mandatory under part 91. Only for "multi-engine" turboprops, not SETPs like the TBM 700. 14 CFR 91.409(e)
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 19:04 |
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Joined: 12/17/13 Posts: 6359 Post Likes: +5544 Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
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Username Protected wrote: I flight plan 302KTAS at 60GPH normally which gives a normal max cruise/climb no wind range of ~900nm and landing with ~90gallons.
Not to take anything away from the great TBM, but a Commander 1000 will do 300kts on 60gph as well - with two engines. Garrett economy.
_________________ Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 20:16 |
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Joined: 06/23/09 Posts: 2300 Post Likes: +707 Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
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I flew a C2 and loved it. Solid 290 knots. We moved up to a 850. I like having the G1000 back and the 850 a little faster at about 308 knots TAS.
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 21:28 |
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Joined: 07/10/10 Posts: 941 Post Likes: +622 Location: New Braunfels, TX
Aircraft: Conquest
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Username Protected wrote: HSI times (and life limited parts) are mandatory under part 91. Only for "multi-engine" turboprops, not SETPs like the TBM 700. 14 CFR 91.409(e)
Not true anymore. FAA clarified this a couple of years ago. Twins and singles are treated the same under Part 91 rules now.
_________________ ----Still emotionally attached to my Baron----
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Post subject: Re: TBM 700 and 700A Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 21:48 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 12799 Post Likes: +5226 Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
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Username Protected wrote: Not true anymore. FAA clarified this a couple of years ago. Twins and singles are treated the same under Part 91 rules now.
Don't think that's true. METP have to follow mfr inspection (not maintenance program) SETP don't.
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