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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 01:36 
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The King Air has qualified pilots available at most decent sized airports across the country due to the popularity of the KA.

King Air definitely wins the race for most available contract pilots. If you are buying for not owner flown, that is a big consideration.

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KA does not have the gotcha that exists with the wrong flap deployment on approach (or in the airport environment) which is very different than most other twins.

I have no idea what this means. If the pilot and the plane don't agree on what the flaps setting is, its a problem on any airplane.

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Simpler, safer and easier to fuel the KA too.

Compared to, say, Conquest? Nope, they are just as simple and easy.

Compared to an MU2 or Commander? Yes, simpler and easier. Safer? I don't think there have been any MU2 or Commander accidents due to fueling problems.

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The KA “look”. Sits high big cabin which feels like a bigger plane overall even when it is not.

The entry height makes the King Air is not very good for elderly passengers. My plane is very easy for them.

Commanders are easy. A Conquest is perhaps only slightly better than a King Air. A Merlin requires a Sherpa, you are practically at cruise altitude once you climb aboard.

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While I might like the MU2 better for its efficiency, speed and hauling ability it would not be my pick to hire pilots for on a daily/weekly basis.

Not sure I'd vet a King Air pilot with any less vigor, but finding an MU2 contract pilot who is truly current will be more difficult.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 08:51 
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Arriving in a King Air is like taking an elegant lady to a party: everybody wants to slow dance with her. Showing up in a MU-2 is swapping the lady for a female Russian weightlifter. It's humiliating, but you can bore everyone with how much weight she can lift.

You just hope that later that night, she doesn't break your leg during rough sex. :lol: :lol:

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 08:53 
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Recently I’ve been asked by a family friend to help him look for an aircraft to get him around for business. He’s a non pilot and has no interest in getting his license so he’d be riding in back. He’s a bigger guy (played as lineman for Alabama) and would be riding with 1-2 other people. Mission we will say is ~500 nm with most trips at or under that and then the occasional trip that’s longer. He doesn’t want to bust the budget on maintenance but he is buying the aircraft with 2-3 other spinal surgeons so money isn’t all that tight. Any thoughts on where to look? I’ve thought of Conquest, Commander, or maybe even Beechjet but am open to other ideas

https://www.planesense.com


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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 09:15 
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Many years ago, I was friends with an aircraft dealer. He got "in trouble" one time, and I helped him out. To his credit, he never forgot the favor.

The first time I flew a King Air, my Twin Bone was down for annual and I had to make a trip. My friend told me to drive up and he'd find something for me to fly. When I got there, he led me out to a 90 model King Air, gave me a check list and a five minute briefing on how to start it up and shut it down and bid me adieu. It should be noted that I had considerable Queen Air experience.

The second time, I had dropped in to say "Hi" and he was about to go to Arkansas and pick up a 200 KA he had bought. One of his pilots flew us over in my Tbone and dropped us off. When we got in the KA, he directed me to the left seat, took a seat in the back and poured himself two fingers of whiskey, it was about toddy time. I reminded him of my lack of KA experience which he waved off while he told me how to start the engines and never came into the cockpit.

The aircraft was located at the owner's relatively short grass strip and the flaps were inoperative. :bugeye: When I opined that I didn't even know the speeds he just said, "it flys like a King Air." I fired it up, flew it back to Memphis and landed without flaps or further instruction; all with about 5 hours of turbine time.

The moniker of Beech excellence is real. I have flown just about every piston airplane Beech ever built except the Staggerwing and owned a bunch of them. Beech designed and built the bench mark airplane in almost every category and everyone else tried to catch up; and still does.

The 90 King Air has been built continuously since 1964 and is still the bench mark to which others compare.

The above comment on quality is why today, we are all members of BeechTalk, not MooTooTalk. :thumbup:

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 10:24 
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I fired it up, flew it back to Memphis and landed without flaps or further instruction; all with about 5 hours of turbine time.

It is easy to drive a Toyota, too. The King Air is a piston airplane with turboprop engines, so your Queen Air time was on point, and that explains its rather lack luster performance.

Don't confuse "easy" with "safe". A number of recent King Air accidents suggests this happens too often. It is easy to fly a King Air until it isn't. I hope no others take your story to mean they can just hop in a King Air and fly it safely.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 11:19 
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I would still go with something modern, glass panel, that still has full factory support. Spend a mil or a little more for glass panel Meridian, hire a light pro-pilot to improve useful load (as long as you don't advertise that fact, it is not discrimination ;) ).

I stretched your mission, because when he realizes how fast he can travel 500 nm, he will want 600. So I picked a west bound 575 nm flight, with light headwinds (14 knots). Taking off with 45-60 min IFR reserves, you can put 650 lbs in the cabin. My profile eats a little more fuel than the actual plane, but I like to carry error towards the good side. You can always pull the go-far lever (PL) back and extend range with not that much of a speed penalty.

Otherwise, Maybe you are talking piston like a FIKI turbo Cirrus, Baron or Mirage/M350, to get something modern, reliable, safe and capable for 750K. I guess in my opinion, I don't think that for 750K, you can get a high dispatch business capable and safe enough turbine to be carrying business partners. A well used turbine in that price range is going to eat you on maintenance, upgrade and operating costs. The piston offerings are probably a better value, but will have the increased maintenance and quirks of a piston, the Mirage would be the most capable of the bunch with regards to weather.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:04 
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Here ya go. Actually kinda surprised at this bang for buck.

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... chjet-400a


May be a 6 figure ADS-B cost for it.


Ok so then you have 650K in it. With only 1K since overhaul and a nice interior, there isnt anything else to do. I still think they will like having this bang for their buck.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:17 
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You cannot buy a complex, pressurized, turbine, ADSB equipped, single pilot aircraft for the proposed budget that is going to give you safe, all weather, very high dispatch reliability and low operating costs. I'd look for a better balance in costs by investing more capital in a newer, more modern and lower operating cost airframe. Or buy a slightly used Cirrus SR22T and accept lack of pressurization and smaller cabin. You'd at least have the best money can buy in its class.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:18 
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Sticking to the mission and budget stated, nothing would touch the offerings of a King Air.

How so?

What does the King Air excel at that no other turboprop can touch? It isn't cheaper to operate, it isn't faster, it isn't longer range, etc, than many other options.

Mike C.

Probably resale and perceived safety not to mention a lot more qualified pilots.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:25 
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May be a 6 figure ADS-B cost for it.

There's going to be a whole lot of shakeout in older jets because of this.

If you want a really cheap jet, just wait until 2019, or better yet, 2020 when it still doesn't have ADS-B out. Wouldn't surprise me if prices are half what they are now for some types.

Mike C.

I still don’t quite understand why I couldn’t just install a GTX345 like any other airplane and get on with things. As far as I can tell, radio waves still outrun a jet even when they are produced by $5k boxes versus $50k boxes... :scratch:
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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:25 
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You cannot buy a complex, pressurized, turbine, ADSB equipped, single pilot aircraft for the proposed budget that is going to give you safe, all weather, very high dispatch reliability and low operating costs. I'd look for a better balance in costs by investing more capital in a newer, more modern and lower operating cost airframe. Or buy a slightly used Cirrus SR22T and accept lack of pressurization and smaller cabin. You'd at least have the best money can buy in its class.


Frankly their budget is a little wonky!!!!!

More apt would be how much they would like to spend on an airplane per year and how much it will get used........if it's turbine all weather, it will be used a fair bit.........

Then figure out the all in hourly including depreciation, maintenance, etc............

750k is a ton of money, or not much depending on what you end up spending hourly.......

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:52 
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Arriving late in a King Air is like taking an elegant lady to a party

FIFY.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:57 
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You cannot buy a complex, pressurized, turbine, ADSB equipped, single pilot aircraft for the proposed budget that is going to give you safe, all weather, very high dispatch reliability and low operating costs.

Hmm, I seem to be doing that. What am I doing wrong?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 13:01 
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I still don’t quite understand why I couldn’t just install a GTX345 like any other airplane and get on with things. As far as I can tell, radio waves still outrun a jet even when they are produced by $5k boxes versus $50k boxes... :scratch:

There's a bunch of damn rules.

For example, transponders are often tied to the RVSM cert. Change the transponder, nullifies RVSM package, unless you retest that.

Stupid as heck. The transponder has ZERO impact on RVSM performance.

And then there's TCAS, which does involve the transponder.

It is all a bunch of certification crap that complicates these airplanes.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 13:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
You cannot buy a complex, pressurized, turbine, ADSB equipped, single pilot aircraft for the proposed budget that is going to give you safe, all weather, very high dispatch reliability and low operating costs.

Hmm, I seem to be doing that. What am I doing wrong?

Mike C.


How many miles do you fly in a typical year?

How much time do personally spend (or pay someone to spend) managing maintenance on your aircraft?
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