An engine mounted on a pylon on the tail is pretty safe even if it is on fire. That can burn a very long time and not compromise the ability of the plane to fly. If the engine is still running at idle, then the fire can't be too serious since the engine mechanicals are not compromised.

The pylon has a firewall so the fire is highly unlikely to spread to the fuselage. Even if the engine falls off, the plane can still fly.

Fire detection loops are notorious for false alarms.

I am not aware of any Citation accidents related to engine fire.

As for the fire button shutting stuff off, that is consistent with the Citation design philosophy of helping the pilot even if they do things out of order.

Mike C.

An engine mounted on a pylon on the tail is pretty safe even if it is on fire. That can burn a very long time and not compromise the ability of the plane to fly. If the engine is still running at idle, then the fire can't be too serious since the engine mechanicals are not compromised.

The pylon has a firewall so the fire is highly unlikely to spread to the fuselage. Even if the engine falls off, the plane can still fly.

Fire detection loops are notorious for false alarms.

I am not aware of any Citation accidents related to engine fire.

As for the fire button shutting stuff off, that is consistent with the Citation design philosophy of helping the pilot even if they do things out of order.

Mike C.

Congrats, Mark. Very cool.

First...Congrats on another type Mark!




Another difference....(makes you wonder how they are the same type)
CJ-4 Only has one bottle...
Different sequence:

I flew with a friend in a CJ-3, and decided I would have to go to school for the differences if I ever thought about flying one.

Late to the party - Congrats Mark!

Congratulations Mark. What’s this going to do to your signature line?


I think I missed something along the way. What airplane are you transitioning to? I thought you were going to an Astra or a Lear?

There hasn’t been. I flew with the Cheif pilot of textron on a demo recently and he said there hasn’t been. It’s why the M2, CJ4 etc have had the number of fire bottles reduced from 2 to 1, I assume the 3 has had the same.

Andrew

I bought half a CJ2 based out of Scottsdale.

One of the gents I fly contract for (550) sold it and decided on a Lear 45. It didn’t make it out of prebuy. Next he decided on an Astra SPX/G100. I had suggested an Ultra but he was sold on the SPX. Nice plane really. In the end he has a partner who waffled and then it was a Lear 35. Again...didn’t make it out of prebuy. So finally I reached out and inquired as to the current plan...boom...they bought an Ultra. So easier on me. Don’t think I have another type in me for a while.

I did a lease on the Ultra too, A man cannot have too many options.

There hasn’t been.

It’s a pain to get the bottles tested whatever Doc inspection it is. Just another random one. The DOC inspections are a pain that they don’t all align etc. but that’s another thread....

To accidentally operate you’d have to lift the plastic ENG FIRE cover, hit the button then hit one of the bottle buttons. Be hard to do by accident.

Also it’s Halon so I don’t think you have to clean or do anything,just recharge.

An STC would be a good idea. I just can’t imagine anyone doing it.

Andrew

There are plenty of counter examples of guarded systems being activated when they shouldn't be.

But I can see the point.

Still, I suspect there has never been a Citation fire bottle activation which had a meaningful impact on the outcome. Most are probably discharged based on false fire loop indications.


Okay. I may have been confusing this with the different system Eclipse had, PhostrEx, which caused corrosion. There was an issue with this that required a reengineered system be installed.


On the face of it, seems simple. STC to remove fire bottles based on field experience.

Who knows if it is even possible.

Mike C.

FIFY



Would those with the halon bottle STC still need to go through engine fires in the sim at the 61.58 checks?

Would those with the halon bottle STC still need to go through engine fires in the sim at the 61.58 checks?

There are plenty of counter examples of guarded systems being activated when they shouldn't be.

But I can see the point.

Still, I suspect there has never been a Citation fire bottle activation which had a meaningful impact on the outcome. Most are probably discharged based on false fire loop indications.


Okay. I may have been confusing this with the different system Eclipse had, PhostrEx, which caused corrosion. There was an issue with this that required a reengineered system be installed.


On the face of it, seems simple. STC to remove fire bottles based on field experience.

Who knows if it is even possible.

Mike C.

[quote="Allen Wolpert"Would those with the halon bottle STC still need to go through engine fires in the sim at the 61.58 checks?[/quote]

Yeah you’d still have to run the drill....

A couple of years ago I was doing a 61.58 and for what ever reason the motor stopped. I said to the instructor I’m not going to bother to restart as they never stop and restart, he said you’ve got to try for check....ok.

Andrew