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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2017, 23:34 
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Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
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Really nice write up, John. As others have said, your humility and your willingness to express it will serve you well.

Jets aren't necessarily harder to fly than slower airplanes. They're just different. Things happen faster and sometimes you operate in a part of the envelope where it isn't as forgiving or as intuitive to fly as a slower, less complex airplane.

There are more trim changes, faster mental bracketing is required and any weaknesses in your basic airmanship will be amplified and more obvious at faster airspeeds. You operate in a much larger part of our atmosphere and the rules, tactics and strategies for weather-related decisions can be much, much different. Easier in some aspects, more challenging in others.

You've probably noticed how much more important a fast instrument scan is, more command/performance oriented with no airplane visible beyond the glareshield.

You mention power settings for certain speeds and configurations. Nothing wrong with that, but it does require extra gray matter and more eyeball movement. I eventually got to where it is all scan, using airspeed as my primary power instrument. A substantial amount of muscle-memory will come into play the more you fly. You'll simply know how much trim and in which direction and where to put the thrust levers. So many senses involved. When I left Learjets for Embraers, I realized how much I was using the aural cue of the engine instrument drums clicking as they rotated in order to place the thrust levers where I wanted them for a particular speed/configuration. Crazy, huh?

Keep at it. Share your successes and failures here and debrief everything you do, even if it's just yourself. Be brutally and objectively honest about what you could have done better and hammer the hell out of those areas outside the cockpit with whatever combination of study and chair flying works best for you.

Reach out to people you trust as much as you can. As a single pilot jet guy, you should always still have a crew, even if they aren't with you in the seat. Their advice, suggestions and tips will make you a stronger aviator, faster.

Congrats on the new ride, buddy.


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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2017, 23:45 
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Joined: 09/09/14
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Location: Grove Airport, Camas WA
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PS, get this book and read it cover to cover:

https://www.amazon.com/Fly-Wing-additio ... g=btalk-20


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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 08:41 
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Joined: 09/04/10
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I still have the Universal FMS. I use it for everything except WAAS and back everything up with the Garmins. I really enjoy the fuel management features, as soon as I'm in cruise and up to speed (unless I plan to go higher later) I check my landing weights and setup Vref. I recheck it a few times during the flight but it is pretty accurate.

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John Lockhart
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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 08:51 
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Alan is correct, I wish it were that easy but we have a checklist to follow that sometimes works. At least two miles outside of the FAF and established on the approach, it needs to go to heading mode then back to Appr. The last time we did this, it was just capturing an altitude and maybe it wanted to be level before I did it. I got all the right readouts but it never changed colors.

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 09:11 
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I had a flight on Saturday out of HWD (near SFO), my clearance was climb to 400' then turn to 040 (or something like that..). It wasn't hard to fly but in my turn, departure asked me to tighten it up so I disconnected the AP and rolled it tighter. In retrospect, I was going the wrong direction for my flight so I didn't need to be as fast as I was. I also didn't think about the SFO approach traffic they had to deal with and my departure's route into it. I was concentrating on the departure and doing everything right but not ahead of the plane enough to think about the bigger picture. This is the kind of stuff that's easy for me in the KA, I enjoy thinking about my climb speed and my direction in relation to my route and trying to get to an altitude or position where they can turn me in the right direction- it is interesting (to me) that I know this stuff but didn't even think about it on this departure.

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 09:23 
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Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Wait until you do your first miss in actual. You will be amazed at how fast you reach your initial level off altitude. Pitch, power, flap, gear, flap, alt...oh damn. See what floats around the cabin. You have to be far enough ahead to realize power needs to comeback pretty quickly in the climb. Remember you will be much lighter than normal.

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 17:25 
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Wait until you do your first miss in actual. You will be amazed at how fast you reach your initial level off altitude. Pitch, power, flap, gear, flap, alt...oh damn. See what floats around the cabin. You have to be far enough ahead to realize power needs to comeback pretty quickly in the climb. Remember you will be much lighter than normal.


When the missed has a climb of only a few thousand it is:

Pitch, power, flap, gear, REDUCE POWER flap, alt...

If I am in the flatlands I don't go full power on the missed. You are light and over powered. I don't need to climb at 4000 fpm on the missed. I adjust power on the missed to get AS 160 - 180 kts and climb rate around 1500 fpm.

Trick I learned for GA power on non-FADEC planes is stand up the throttles vertical on a GA. That is more then enough initial power for a GA but not enough to worry about exceeding engine limits. Clean up flaps-gear-flaps then check AS and climb rate and adjust power.

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 17:37 
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Alan is correct, I wish it were that easy but we have a checklist to follow that sometimes works. At least two miles outside of the FAF and established on the approach, it needs to go to heading mode then back to Appr. The last time we did this, it was just capturing an altitude and maybe it wanted to be level before I did it. I got all the right readouts but it never changed colors.


Did that checklist come from Cessna with the STC or was it developed by the prior owner?

I suggest you call Team CJ and ask to be put in contact with the Cessna engineer who worked on the STC. Cessna had to mediate the dialogue between Collins and Garmin to get a software update to the PL21 for the boxes to work together.

I had some conference calls with the Cessna engineers when it was being developed. They were friendly and open to discussing the issues. This was a few years ago and Cessna has had a bunch staff turnover. If you can get to any of the engineers who worked on the STC you may get a better understanding of what the boxes are doing.

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 23:47 
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Trick I learned for GA power on non-FADEC planes is stand up the throttles vertical on a GA. That is more then enough initial power for a GA but not enough to worry about exceeding engine limits. Clean up flaps-gear-flaps then check AS and climb rate and adjust power.

Hi Allen - this seems like a really good tip - can you just clarify what you mean by stand up the throttles vertical? You mean put them at the midway position? If that is correct, I imagine that's at about the 80-85% N1 position which would make sense - is that right?


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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 00:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
Trick I learned for GA power on non-FADEC planes is stand up the throttles vertical on a GA. That is more then enough initial power for a GA but not enough to worry about exceeding engine limits. Clean up flaps-gear-flaps then check AS and climb rate and adjust power.

Hi Allen - this seems like a really good tip - can you just clarify what you mean by stand up the throttles vertical? You mean put them at the midway position? If that is correct, I imagine that's at about the 80-85% N1 position which would make sense - is that right?


I think you have the general idea. That gives you enough power to get to at least 160 KTS and 1000 FPM climb. That is all you need on a missed. You don’t need to go blasting up. It lets you focus on other things until you have time to more precisely set the power.
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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 11:40 
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Great tip. When first transitioning, I got hung up on getting exact go-around power set, and that often took too much time. Of course, with a co-pilot, I could just get it close and have the right seater adjust to the number.

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 17:05 
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Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
JL and I did 4 legs in the CJ yesterday. Leg one was an LPV in KHWD

[youtube]https://youtu.be/YNoAcc5AfRo[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:41 
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On some larger newer airliners hitting the GA button does not give you full power it gives you a 2000fpm.

Full power is always there but rarely needed.

A technique on some older airplanes is a “soft GA” throttles to toga then immediately to climb power.


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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:48 
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Unfortunately, the Calgon Air folks on flight 3407 did need it, or at least book go-around power and never got it in. Not saying that always applies, just something to consider when putting in go-around power. I like Allen's suggestion, but when weather is bad with ice on the plane, book power might be what is needed. Then, there is a point, firewall or full power might be better than the alternative

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 Post subject: Re: My first 60 hours in a CJ2
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 12:59 
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JL and I did 4 legs in the CJ yesterday. Leg one was an LPV in KHWD



Video looks fake, plus JL landed centerline........very unusual........ :duck:

Where's the sound.......I want to hear the coaching!!!!

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