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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 13:08 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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Location: Indiana
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Ok, I take it back. Somebody is apparently using 185's for commercial purposes!


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 13:22 
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Location: Indiana
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Right now, there are three (3) 180's listed on Barnstormers. Two of them are a Skywagons.com. ISTM that would be a reasonable place to start.

Also, their website has a lot of information about changes by model year, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 13:52 
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Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
I have owned a 1973 185 with Robertson STOL. I would advise you to stay away from Robertson STOL equipped 180/185 due to the droop ailerons that diminish aileron effectiveness and make cross winds a pain.

The reality is that a 182 is a better airplane unless you need the tailwheel for off airport work. I own a Legend Cub-I get that tailwheel flying is fun and cool. However for a traveling machine that will mostly be on pavement- a nose dragger is sure nice for those days when you get stuck with gusty, strong cross winds.


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 16:01 
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Location: Seeley Lake, MT (23S)
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I have several friends with 180s and 185s. One flies his 180 on pipeline patrol, he puts about 20 hours a week on it. He is an IA and overhauls his own engines, the last one he ran that 470 out to about 3500 hours. There was a wing change on the 180's in the mid 50's sometime. The earlier ones have a lot less rivets and are prone to oil canning. My buddy doing the pipeline basically wore out his wings, he had quite a few patches on the upper surface where the metal failed. Finally replaced the wings with newer ones that are much better made. He also specifically wanted the standard Cessna wing leading edge. Same issues with the cuffed leading edge as the rest of the wing. I think he had the Sportsman kit, he did not like it.
Another buddy with a 185 put the 550 in it. It takes me a lot of miles to catch him if I spot him a few thousand feet of runway. The 550 is nice as it reduces the prop RPM from that ridiculous 2850 of the 520's.

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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 16:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
...Another buddy with a 185 put the 550 in it. It takes me a lot of miles to catch him if I spot him a few thousand feet of runway...


In your 182 or your Bonanza?

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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 16:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
...Another buddy with a 185 put the 550 in it. It takes me a lot of miles to catch him if I spot him a few thousand feet of runway...


In your 182 or your Bonanza?


Ha, in the 182 he'd be nothing but a memory. I bet he's seeing 155-160 knots true but it takes a lot of gas to get a Cessna going that fast.
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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 17:56 
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Joined: 06/09/09
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
Username Protected wrote:
I have owned a 1973 185 with Robertson STOL. I would advise you to stay away from Robertson STOL equipped 180/185 due to the droop ailerons that diminish aileron effectiveness and make cross winds a pain.

The reality is that a 182 is a better airplane unless you need the tailwheel for off airport work. I own a Legend Cub-I get that tailwheel flying is fun and cool. However for a traveling machine that will mostly be on pavement- a nose dragger is sure nice for those days when you get stuck with gusty, strong cross winds.



I have RSTOL on my 182 and like it. Also vg's on it which bring back a lot of the aileron authority that is diminished by the drooping ailerons. If I look for another 182 I would specifically search out one with a RSTOL.


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 18:43 
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Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
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Erwin,

The Robertson STOL on the 185 produced spectacular results (SuperCub runway performance), but the airplane was unforgiving if you drifted sideways at touchdown. At low speed and high angles of attack with the flaps deployed (so the ailerons drooped), I could move the ailerons from lock to lock and the airplane would hardly react.

I have heard that VG's help. I would imagine that a 182 would be much more forgiving.

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 13 Nov 2017, 20:34 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
My honest suggestion is to make acquaintance with Skywagons.com. I
Jg

Aren't those fellas the money laundering dudes?

:scratch:

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/news/placervi ... ds-guilty/
http://www.inedc.com/1-7.html


Even a cursory reading of the article would tell you the answer is "no". No one currently associated with Skywagons.com was implicated in the money laundering charges. Kerry wasn't even employed there until several years after the incidences.

But I'm sure it's fun to drag it up and try to implicate them. :woot:

Jg
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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 00:03 
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Joined: 10/19/08
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Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
Having been weaned in 180's dating back to the early '50's, and progressing to the 182, 185, 206, and turbo 206, I can attest to the delightful qualities of the early (circa 1955) 180's. I have kept mine out of a deep emotional investment in the airplane, as it has pulled me out of a number of difficult situations in a stellar fashion. An affair of thirty years, and still magic in every flight.
The larger tail on the 185 was added purportedly because of the higher horsepower of the IO 520, but it was in reality an idea borne out of the marketing people in Wichita; not of the engineers. In fact, it offers so much sail area when taxiing in a crosswind, that a tailwheel lock became imperative. All these points can be found in the early club handbook.
The P Ponk conversion makes a wonderful addition to the light airframe of the early models. Flying them is like dancing the Tango with a lithe, beautiful woman who understands and follows your every lead. Flying the control spring-assisted 185 is like trying to wrestle an obese Russian apparatchik female around a dingy dance floor to an ill-tuned balalaika.

YMMV

TN


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 07:57 
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
How would the process go for a Midwesterner buying from Skywagons? I don't see spending three days round-trip for a test flight.

I know people buy sight unseen and get the new airplane ferried, but..... :ohno:


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 08:42 
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Location: Cascade, Idaho (U70)
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Username Protected wrote:
How would the process go for a Midwesterner buying from Skywagons? I don't see spending three days round-trip for a test flight.

I know people buy sight unseen and get the new airplane ferried, but..... :ohno:


I live nearby.....if you need anything checked out, let me know.

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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 08:55 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
Having been weaned in 180's dating back to the early '50's, and progressing to the 182, 185, 206, and turbo 206, I can attest to the delightful qualities of the early (circa 1955) 180's. I have kept mine out of a deep emotional investment in the airplane, as it has pulled me out of a number of difficult situations in a stellar fashion. An affair of thirty years, and still magic in every flight.
The larger tail on the 185 was added purportedly because of the higher horsepower of the IO 520, but it was in reality an idea borne out of the marketing people in Wichita; not of the engineers. In fact, it offers so much sail area when taxiing in a crosswind, that a tailwheel lock became imperative. All these points can be found in the early club handbook.
The P Ponk conversion makes a wonderful addition to the light airframe of the early models. Flying them is like dancing the Tango with a lithe, beautiful woman who understands and follows your every lead. Flying the control spring-assisted 185 is like trying to wrestle an obese Russian apparatchik female around a dingy dance floor to an ill-tuned balalaika.

YMMV

I think Tom was secretly listening in to a conversation I had with Stan yesterday about the 180/185. Stan is struggling with the idea of selling his, and I just reminded him of the smile he and I both get on our faces when at the yoke of our Skywagons. It is not "every man's" airplane and flying one well is more art than science. But like Tom said about dancing with a lady, when done right, it is something special.

As for Stuart's valid observation of buying one on the West coast when you live in the Midwest, well, if you limit your sights to Skywagons that are "convenient", you are probably going to have a very, VERY, limited choice of airplanes. You don't just hop and skip down the street to buy a Skywagon like you do a 172 or a Bonanza; there aren't that many to choose from and no two airplanes are anything like in configuration, condition, or equipment.

As for the "best" STOL mods, the simple wing cuff does 99% of the job without any adverse effects. The later models came equipped with them from the factory.

But I will make this suggestion: don't get the Skywagonitus frivolously. Fly one first, even to the point of getting "checked out" in one. You may find it is not really your cup of tea. IMO and I think in Stan's and others, there is a reasonable number of pilots who will never master landing a Skywagons in a 15 knot cross wind. No big deal, just understand that is why Cessna put the little "thingy" (nose wheel) on the front of the Skylane just for you.

I'm going to put another :thumbup: in for Skywagons. They represent their airplanes honestly and will arrange a ferry to any place you want it delivered. Kerry does most of the deliveries and will get it to you efficiently and as soon as the conditions allow; he is a very good Skywagon pilot. You might even find it interesting to ask him who gave him his tailwheel endorsement and taught him to fly the 180. :eek: :peace:

There are several guys hereon who actually know what they are talking about with 180's and 185's, Stan and Tom Navar to name two. Tom has owned and flown one for more years than some pilots hereon have been alive. Give them a PM. :bud:

Jg



TN

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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 18:47 
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Aircraft: Cessna 185
Where would I begin? Chuck, there are not a lot of 180 aircraft to pick from on any given day. Best to deal with a seller that knows this type. Such as Skywagons in CA or get with a IA/AP that knows the aircraft to help you select a good one. There are a number of good ones out there that have seen a lot of TLC. Most do not sell very often. The early models are light on the controls as mentioned earlier in this thread. You will find some early models priced up well over a $100,000, most starting around $70,000. The fastest of the line is the K model introduced in 1977 with a U engine and some with the big fin. You will find some of the early models updated to the R engine, a good upgrade. Joe Stancil, the founder of Skywagons and I have been friends since 1980 and the company he sold continues to take good care of their customers.

The International 180/185 Club now accepts associate members, if you have an interest in 180/185 aircraft, but don't own one yet and want to find out about 180/185's join up and come to an event. The club manuals and news letters have anything and everything you ever wanted to know about 180/185's. I've been a member since 1980 and was a club directer for many years. A lot of great people in the club and their Conventions and fly-in's are great. Yes, I know a few will disagree with me on the club, and it's not for everyone.

There are many mods and STC's to make a great aircraft even better. We have 180's in the club that will push 200 MPH. The late Tommy Rose won the Sun and Fun race in the late nineties at 213 MPH in his 185, he never would tell me how many $$$ he spent to go that fast.

Which is the best, 180 or 185. Both great at what they do and both a fun aircraft to fly. I flew several early model 180's for three years in the late sixties hauling Sky Divers for the Denver Sport Parachute Club. I owned a cream puff 1954 180 from 1969 till 1975. My son's and I were coming back from a trip back east to Breckenridge, CO where I was based in the seventies. Weather went to pot, heavy snow and we turned around and headed back to Jeffco in the Denver area to leave the 180 and call wife for the ride home. It was less than a few days and one of the big windstorms they can get came in and took out a number of planes including our beloved 180. I started looking for another 180 and even priced a new 1976 180 with all the bells and whistles I wanted. It was $25,000 with no radios. I kicked it around and didn't buy. Then started the long process of finding a good bird. Looked hard and fast the spring of 1976. Found a lot of junk, both 180 and 185's. Near new, several near new with bent gear legs from a GL, repaired and bent gear leg not replaced and listed with no damage history, when I pointed out the gear legs, they admitted they were trying to sell them with no damage history. Was looking at TAP in June, 1976 and saw a 1971 A185E for sale in Griffin,GA. Seller was the second owner and a Delta pilot. His IA was an Eastern Captain. I talked with the IA and he said this is a good aircraft, it had a 1,000 hours TT. Wife and I hopped on the airlines and when we looked it over and flew it, I knew it was the one. I closed the deal that same day and we flew it home. Here it is 41 years later and it's still in the family. Am I glad I purchased a 185, you bet. Love the load it carries and the way it handles, speed is not bad with the Snider Speed kit and wheel panties over the 800x6.00 rubber, 150 knots heavy and 155 light, throw in a 550 and see 160 knots. Lands under 300 feet, but won't match the early 180's on short takeoff. I call it a runway lover compared to my 54 180. It's served us well for the 3000+ hours I have in it.
Ron


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 Post subject: Re: If I was shopping for a C180
PostPosted: 14 Nov 2017, 19:26 
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Ron,

I really enjoyed your post. You have a lot of experience and knowledge to share.

Thanks. :thumbup:

Jg

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