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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 16:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
GM, you have annual recurrent in the 340 already, correct? IPC and BFR?


Since I have dual G500s, 750/650 I advocated against sim training with my last insurance renewal, because the sim isn't representative of my systems or failures (with the exception of OEI approaches- even then it's totally different). they bought it, and my rates still went down a little.

My training plan: I remain current (always IFR current- essentially an approach on every flight), 2 FAA safety courses per year (online), and an annual IPC (2 hours max).

I actually am a huge fan of the sim, but only in situations where the sim is representative of your own equipment. I was getting an annual sim ride in "somebody else's airplane." not helpful. probably different for my legacy gear compared to higher-end SETP stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 17:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
PC12 has annual sim requirement.

Last year I flew to Simcom with a CJ3 pilot and had the same requirement I had. We were both 3 days/2 nights.


But that's for insurance purposes, it's not a legal requirement. You can fly a PC12 with just a private ticket with complex, high performance and high altitude endorsements.
It wouldn't be very safe though.


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 19:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
this may have been mentioned before-
but if I fly a jet I'll almost certainly have a mandatory annual sim requirement, right?
much less likely with a SETP. what's that week of time worth?-- for me that week is very costly and hard to schedule.

if I compare block times at 150 hours per year, I'm still way behind in the jet since I have to spend 2-3 days in the sim.

I look at it the other way around. In other words, what’s the added risk you’re taking if you don’t do the annual sim recurrent? I know a lot of guys that go more than once per year. Why? Because it keeps them sharper. If you think the annual 3-day recurrent in a jet sim is a waste of time, I think you’d change your mind after you get typed.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 19:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
But that's for insurance purposes, it's not a legal requirement. You can fly a PC12 with just a private ticket with complex, high performance and high altitude endorsements.
It wouldn't be very safe though.

That's true.

Regardless...... I can't fly without insurance any more than I can fly without a legal requirement.


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 19:44 
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I look at it the other way around. In other words, what’s the added risk you’re taking if you don’t do the annual sim recurrent? I know a lot of guys that go more than once per year. Why? Because it keeps them sharper. If you think the annual 3-day recurrent in a jet sim is a waste of time, I think you’d change your mind after you get typed.

If you're only flying 100 hours a year I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 20:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
this may have been mentioned before-
but if I fly a jet I'll almost certainly have a mandatory annual sim requirement, right?
much less likely with a SETP. what's that week of time worth?-- for me that week is very costly and hard to schedule.

if I compare block times at 150 hours per year, I'm still way behind in the jet since I have to spend 2-3 days in the sim.

I look at it the other way around. In other words, what’s the added risk you’re taking if you don’t do the annual sim recurrent? I know a lot of guys that go more than once per year. Why? Because it keeps them sharper. If you think the annual 3-day recurrent in a jet sim is a waste of time, I think you’d change your mind after you get typed.


I totally agree with you. I just thought it was a waste of time in a sim that was different than my twin.
I think flying a jet is a lot different than a SETP, mostly because of the higher departure and approach speeds.
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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 20:44 
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I think flying a jet is a lot different than a SETP, mostly because of the higher departure and approach speeds.


Turbojet speeds are not the issue. Citation 510 & 525 speeds on final are between 95kts - 110 kts. Approach speeds may be 150 - 160kts. Many prop singles and twins are flying faster and need to be told to slow down with me ahead.

Flying a turbojet is different due to turbojet aerodynamics - responsiveness of the turbine engine; lack of props for drag to slow down; sensitive pitch; slicker airframe.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 21:37 
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I definitely flew faster approach speeds in the 350 than I did in the CJ4. Easy to dump speed with the props....

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 21:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
Simcom on the PC12 can be done in two days. Frankly, its a good time to brush up on the systems, etc. If sim training isn't your thing, you can also do in-airplane recurrent at your home airport.


We do the TBM 900 at SimCom but it is 4 days because we go in a group or three people.
Will be there in December.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
I actually am a huge fan of the sim, but only in situations where the sim is representative of your own equipment.

It represents your engines, landing gear, fuel system, flight controls, flaps, electrical system, etc....

Just because it doesn't have your fancy displays is a minor difference, IMO. You can spend the sim session on everything but avionics heavy stuff, for example, engine failures which you really CANNOT do properly in a real airplane.

I've never flown a sim that matched my avionics and I find them to be very useful none the less.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you're only flying 100 hours a year I agree.

I don't think this changes with hours/year.

If I spend 400 hours/year watching an AP fly the plane, I am no more current on emergency procedures than if I watch it only 100 hours/year.

The point of training is to do the things that you DON'T normally do in actual flying so you are ready when they occur. I have experienced 250 engine failures in training, but ZERO in real life.

If you need training to do the NORMAL stuff, then you are not getting enough flying time in the first place. What you need then is not a type school course, but go out with an instructor and shoot some approaches and do most of them NOT on AP. Then, when you go to type school, your flying skills are such you don't have to do remedial work first before you get to the emergency procedures. This will make type school FASTER and BETTER.

A case in point are airline pilots. They get LOTS of hours, yet they train every 6 months. That's because they almost NEVER have an emergency in normal flying. I'd be scared to death of an airline captain who had 3000 hours last year but no sim time.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'd be scared to death of an airline captain who had 3000 hours last year but no sim time.

Mike C.


I would also be scared of a pro-pilot flying 58 hours a week without a single week of vacation... and of the airline that would let him do it ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:24 
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I would also be scared of a pro-pilot flying 58 hours a week without a single week of vacation... and of the airline that would let him do it ;)

Ah, someone is paying attention...

Let's change it to 3000 hours in 3 years and no sim time. :-)

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
We do the TBM 900 at SimCom but it is 4 days because we go in a group or three people.

There's another benefit to sim training. Do it with a sim partner. There are many benefits:

You will be amazed at what you can learn by watching someone else do it.

You will form a lasting friendship, someone who flies your type, and thus can be helpful to you even outside sim sessions.

Ground school part is better with more than one in class.

You often get a discount for this.

I've never done sim training alone. In airplane training is often alone by comparison.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2017, 00:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
I would also be scared of a pro-pilot flying 58 hours a week without a single week of vacation... and of the airline that would let him do it ;)

Ah, someone is paying attention...

Let's change it to 3000 hours in 3 years and no sim time. :-)

Mike C.


121 pilots are limited to 1,000 hours in any rolling 365 day period by 117.23.
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