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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 12:44 
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2000 hour Mustang. I think his asking price is high.


Apologies for further thread drift but can someone explain this:

"Left engine was off for approximately 26 hours to repair a combustion liner in 2015."

Did they put a loaner engine on the plane during those 26 hours? Surely the plane didn't fly 26 hours without the left engine??? Or maybe it did fly without the left engine and that's totally acceptable. Wouldn't they have known that SEJs are cripples? :scratch:

Engine programs include rental and loaner engines provisions. As Adam says, swapping an engine is quick.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 15:35 
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My good friend, Gary Goltz (Prime Aircraft in Addison, TX), has brought this Citation Mustang to market - not $1.3mm but not all that far off in asking. Looks like a lot of cluck for the buck to me but I'm a poor Baron driver so WTHDIK.

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... on-mustang

2000 hour Mustang. I think his asking price is high.


Few planes sell at asking. It is better then CALL FOR PRICE. Show up and start negotiating.
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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 18:02 
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It looks like 19 have sold in that last six months... and that's just 100's not 100E or 100EV

The days on market were not bad... less than 6 months in most cases...

I think they may be selling a little better than you think.

Controller is always full of airplanes that are not really for sale... or have already sold. Listing brokers need ads so they typically leave them up as long as possible.

So 28 used NON E and NON EV Phenoms change hands every year? Only 350 Phenom 100's have been built and that includes the E and EV. Your number doesn't even include new sales.

There are 6 Phenom 100's flying right now compared to 66 PC12's and I'll bet 28 used PC12's don't change hands in year.

Where are you getting this "19 sales in 6 months" number?


If it's just going off registration changes, I think the PC12 would have changed hands more than you'd think. The biggest fractional company for pc12s has new registrations weekly with owners buying shares, buying into new shares, selling airplanes, and the 135 airplane switching often. That messes up things a bit as it's more just paperwork shuffling, rather than people changing from a Pilatus.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 22:18 
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Joined: 01/02/08
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Company: Rusnak Auto Group
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Username Protected wrote:
My good friend, Gary Goltz (Prime Aircraft in Addison, TX), has brought this Citation Mustang to market - not $1.3mm but not all that far off in asking. Looks like a lot of cluck for the buck to me but I'm a poor Baron driver so WTHDIK.

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... on-mustang

2000 hour Mustang. I think his asking price is high.

I text Gary this morning and he already has an offer on the plane very close to the asking price. I predict it will sell at $1.5mm. :popcorn:
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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 22:42 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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JetNet

Ha. And we've come full circle.

I wouldn't like JetNet if I were you. If JetNet had accurate data a buyer would know everything you know.


I don’t sell information, I buy airplanes... why would I hate JetNet?

Sorry, I didn’t get the chance to run the PC-12’s today.

I’m guessing close to 200 will change hands this year.
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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 22:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
If it's just going off registration changes, I think the PC12 would have changed hands more than you'd think. The biggest fractional company for pc12s has new registrations weekly with owners buying shares, buying into new shares, selling airplanes, and the 135 airplane switching often. That messes up things a bit as it's more just paperwork shuffling, rather than people changing from a Pilatus.


JetNet shows each transaction, then you have to exclude the pass throughs and internal sales, that is what takes time... I can easily tell you the total of registration changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 23:01 
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Joined: 04/27/10
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Getting a new AWC is actually a major P in the A.

Not really. Just a FSDO visit.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 17 Nov 2017, 23:08 
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I know the price point of this thread is $1.3M, but what about an Eclipse for half that price?

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 00:10 
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what's the all-in cost to operate a mustang 100-125 hours per year? is there the same sim requirement as with all jets?

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 16:28 
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The DOC for a Mustang at 100-125 annual hours will run in the $85,000 to $100,000 range depending on where you operate. Fixed costs will likely run $30,000 to $50,000 depending on your situation. $115,000 to $150,000 for 100-125 hours, all in. However, the first year or two is typically around $30,000 more if it’s your first jet, due to insurance and training expenses. The training requirements are the same as other jets, but sim time is not necessarily mandatory. However, it’s a really good idea to train in a sim.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 18:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
The DOC for a Mustang at 100-125 annual hours will run in the $85,000 to $100,000 range depending on where you operate. Fixed costs will likely run $30,000 to $50,000 depending on your situation. $115,000 to $150,000 for 100-125 hours, all in. However, the first year or two is typically around $30,000 more if it’s your first jet, due to insurance and training expenses. The training requirements are the same as other jets, but sim time is not necessarily mandatory. However, it’s a really good idea to train in a sim.


100 000 dollars for 100 hours inspection ? I'm on wrong business :bugeye:


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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 19:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
The DOC for a Mustang at 100-125 annual hours will run in the $85,000 to $100,000 range depending on where you operate. Fixed costs will likely run $30,000 to $50,000 depending on your situation. $115,000 to $150,000 for 100-125 hours, all in. However, the first year or two is typically around $30,000 more if it’s your first jet, due to insurance and training expenses. The training requirements are the same as other jets, but sim time is not necessarily mandatory. However, it’s a really good idea to train in a sim.


100 000 dollars for 100 hours inspection ? I'm on wrong business :bugeye:


Direct Operating Costs. $1,000 to $1,250 per hour. Not just for the inspection.
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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 19:36 
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I was asking for all-in cost, not inspections. Thanks Clint.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2017, 20:26 
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I quoted all-in costs. Direct operating costs of $800-$850/hr plus $30,000-$50,000 in fixed costs.

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 Post subject: Re: Best t-prop or jet for $1.3m?
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 15:37 
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I quoted all-in costs. Direct operating costs of $800-$850/hr plus $30,000-$50,000 in fixed costs.


That is not bad at all Clint. What is your average block speed? 330?


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