25 Apr 2024, 13:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 12:52 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14582 Post Likes: +22967 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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Username Protected wrote: Textron still makes the Bonanza; that has to say something. to be fair, mooney is still in production too, in a "staggering along on the brink of extinction" manner that also describes bonanza production
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 14:56 |
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Joined: 11/06/13 Posts: 404 Post Likes: +247 Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
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I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)
Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.
I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36.
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 16:59 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 6695 Post Likes: +8036 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)
Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.
I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36. "The BT36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim...." What? No cowl flaps or rudder trim? Oh the horror!
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 17:19 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 6695 Post Likes: +8036 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)
Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.
I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36. "The BT36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim...." What? No cowl flaps or rudder trim? Oh the horror!
Hey, every airplane has it's achilles heel, bar none. Every airplane is a compromise. Bonanzas are great airplanes, but one little comment about no cowl flaps or rudder trim seems to have raised the hair on a Bonanza owner's back. Don't live up to the perception of superiority, it only harms the image of the brand. One owner points out out some deficiency, a joke is made of it, and another owner takes offense. What's up with that?
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 17:37 |
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Joined: 01/15/11 Posts: 912 Post Likes: +929 Location: Elk City, OK
Aircraft: B55 P2 & 210
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Username Protected wrote: I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)
Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.
I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36. "The BT36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim...." What? No cowl flaps or rudder trim? Oh the horror! It is my understanding that it is hard to keep the engine cool on the B36TC, often requiring step climbs. A climb in a T210 without adding a turn or two of rudder trim can be really tiring on the leg. Maybe the 36 doesn't require rudder trim but that does seem odd to me. I have never flown a 36, so take it for what it's worth.
_________________ Sincerely, Bobby Southard
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 18:31 |
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Joined: 11/06/13 Posts: 404 Post Likes: +247 Location: KFTW-Fort Worth Meacham
Aircraft: C208B, AL18-115
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Paul,
I wanted to be very specific and limit my criticism to the factory B36 (not the A36) with two specific complaints-useful load and engine cooling. Rudder trim was just a pet peeve.
The reality is that the B36 was a beautifully built airplane and a joy to hand fly. I fly in and out of several ranches in Texas and my main mission requires full tanks. I also have a wife, 3 kids, and two good sized dogs. I had the T210 when the kids were tiny and I had a Jack Russell terrier. I had the B36 (through a partnership) while I was also flying a Grand Caravan. I was hoping that the B36 would be a more economical mode of travel than the Caravan for 4 or fewer passengers. What I found was that the B36 was really a two person airplane with full fuel. I also found that in any weather, I would fly the Caravan because of the turbine reliability and more redundant systems. But that is not a fair knock on the Bonanza to compare it to a Caravan.
I flew the T210 out of Aspen with full fuel and four big guys inside. I flew out of ranch strips with four big guys. I would not/could not do it in the B36.
Long story way too long. We sold the B36. I still fly the Caravan. Kids are going to college. One dog is getting old. I am thinking about the next airplane. I change my mind every 5 minutes. I sure love flying that Caravan.
Ed
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 18:43 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 6695 Post Likes: +8036 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: Paul,
I wanted to be very specific and limit my criticism to the factory B36 (not the A36) with two specific complaints-useful load and engine cooling. Rudder trim was just a pet peeve.
The reality is that the B36 was a beautifully built airplane and a joy to hand fly. I fly in and out of several ranches in Texas and my main mission requires full tanks. I also have a wife, 3 kids, and two good sized dogs. I had the T210 when the kids were tiny and I had a Jack Russell terrier. I had the B36 (through a partnership) while I was also flying a Grand Caravan. I was hoping that the B36 would be a more economical mode of travel than the Caravan for 4 or fewer passengers. What I found was that the B36 was really a two person airplane with full fuel. I also found that in any weather, I would fly the Caravan because of the turbine reliability and more redundant systems. But that is not a fair knock on the Bonanza to compare it to a Caravan.
I flew the T210 out of Aspen with full fuel and four big guys inside. I flew out of ranch strips with four big guys. I would not/could not do it in the B36.
Long story way too long. We sold the B36. I still fly the Caravan. Kids are going to college. One dog is getting old. I am thinking about the next airplane. I change my mind every 5 minutes. I sure love flying that Caravan.
Ed Good point Edward; the B36 or A36 and the 210 are in a class of their own with 6 seats. For another, different Beech - Cessna comparison it would probably be The 182's compared to the Beech 35's, but I don't know my Beech models very well.
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 19:25 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4697 Post Likes: +2404 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Quote: Cessnas make a mediocre pilot look bad. How is that possible?? Cessnas have "Land-O-Matic" gear....!
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 19:25 |
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Joined: 12/18/13 Posts: 460 Post Likes: +77 Company: Gray Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: C-210N
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Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.
Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.
I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.
Gotta Love It!
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 19:28 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 6695 Post Likes: +8036 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: Quote: Cessnas make a mediocre pilot look bad. How is that possible?? Cessnas have "Land-O-Matic" gear....! Yeah, they need to talk to Marketing about that. Fortunately, my wife doesn't know the plane has "Land-O- Matic" gear, or she'd be asking me why I don't use it.
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 20:55 |
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Joined: 11/06/10 Posts: 11898 Post Likes: +2854 Company: Looking Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
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Username Protected wrote: Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.
Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.
I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.
Gotta Love It! I thought it was more logarithmic. Each bump in speed/capability adds a digit... Tim
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 21 May 2018, 23:14 |
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Joined: 08/23/11 Posts: 2126 Post Likes: +2003 Company: Delta/ check o'the month club Location: Meridian , ID (KEUL)
Aircraft: 1968 Bonanza 36
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Username Protected wrote: Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.
Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.
I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.
Gotta Love It! Same trip, same speed. My useful is 1483 in my 36, so you have me by a few lbs on paper. I’m burning 12.3/hr to do it. Are you runnin LOP? Sure is easy to load with those big doors! I was about to pull the trigger on a 210. Bank backed out which was good in the long run; insurance is nearly double for a 210, and even more for a T210! That was enough to send me to a 36.
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Post subject: Re: 210 vs Bo AOPA Style Posted: 22 May 2018, 00:28 |
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Joined: 10/28/12 Posts: 3340 Post Likes: +2761 Company: IBG Business-M&A Advisors Location: Kerrville, TX (60TE)
Aircraft: SR22-G2 GTS
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Username Protected wrote: Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.
Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.
I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.
Gotta Love It! Same trip, same speed. My useful is 1483 in my 36, so you have me by a few lbs on paper. I’m burning 12.3/hr to do it. Are you runnin LOP? Sure is easy to load with those big doors! I was about to pull the trigger on a 210. Bank backed out which was good in the long run; insurance is nearly double for a 210, and even more for a T210! That was enough to send me to a 36.
This. I was leaning heavily in the C direction based on numbers and features but insurance was hard to find, much less at a reasonable rate. That, to me, was a sign. There must be a reason for that.
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