BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 12:52

Username Protected wrote:

Textron still makes the Bonanza; that has to say something.

to be fair, mooney is still in production too, in a "staggering along on the brink of extinction" manner that also describes bonanza production

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 14:56

I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)

Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.

I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 16:59

Username Protected wrote:

I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)

Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.

I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36.

"The BT36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim...."

What? No cowl flaps or rudder trim? Oh the horror! :eek:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 17:19

Username Protected wrote:

I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)

Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.

I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36.

"The BT36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim...."

What? No cowl flaps or rudder trim? Oh the horror! :eek:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 17:37

Username Protected wrote:

I have really participated in the thread drift. Originally, AOPA compared a modified 210 to a A36. Somewhere along the way it moved to a T210 vs. B36TC argument (when I chimed in.)

Here is the deal. Most of the later model 210's (L,M,N,R) are turbo charged. Most 36 Bonanza's are normally aspirated. Just dealing in terms of factory 210's and 36's (no TN's), Beech won the normally aspirated market and Cessna won the turbo market.

I liked flying my B36TC, but in my opinion, it was not a good airframe/engine combination compared to the T210N I owned. The B36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim, and a higher useful load (really a lower empty weight). The bigger wing seemed like a great idea, but the engine couldn't take advantage of it. I would bet that a TN550 is a great engine in the B36.

"The BT36TC could have used cowl flaps, rudder trim...."

What? No cowl flaps or rudder trim? Oh the horror! :eek:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 17:39

Username Protected wrote:

Go sit on the flightline at OSH. If we are making generalizations, he is right.

Watched B2OSH and Ceznas to OSH arrivals this year. There were a lot more Cessna landings that made me wince. Was it the planes, the pilots, I don't know but the B2OSH group exhibited a better landing show.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 18:31

Paul,

I wanted to be very specific and limit my criticism to the factory B36 (not the A36) with two specific complaints-useful load and engine cooling. Rudder trim was just a pet peeve.

The reality is that the B36 was a beautifully built airplane and a joy to hand fly. I fly in and out of several ranches in Texas and my main mission requires full tanks. I also have a wife, 3 kids, and two good sized dogs. I had the T210 when the kids were tiny and I had a Jack Russell terrier. I had the B36 (through a partnership) while I was also flying a Grand Caravan. I was hoping that the B36 would be a more economical mode of travel than the Caravan for 4 or fewer passengers. What I found was that the B36 was really a two person airplane with full fuel. I also found that in any weather, I would fly the Caravan because of the turbine reliability and more redundant systems. But that is not a fair knock on the Bonanza to compare it to a Caravan.

I flew the T210 out of Aspen with full fuel and four big guys inside. I flew out of ranch strips with four big guys. I would not/could not do it in the B36.

Long story way too long. We sold the B36. I still fly the Caravan. Kids are going to college. One dog is getting old. I am thinking about the next airplane. I change my mind every 5 minutes. I sure love flying that Caravan.

Ed

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 18:43

Username Protected wrote:

Paul,

I wanted to be very specific and limit my criticism to the factory B36 (not the A36) with two specific complaints-useful load and engine cooling. Rudder trim was just a pet peeve.

The reality is that the B36 was a beautifully built airplane and a joy to hand fly. I fly in and out of several ranches in Texas and my main mission requires full tanks. I also have a wife, 3 kids, and two good sized dogs. I had the T210 when the kids were tiny and I had a Jack Russell terrier. I had the B36 (through a partnership) while I was also flying a Grand Caravan. I was hoping that the B36 would be a more economical mode of travel than the Caravan for 4 or fewer passengers. What I found was that the B36 was really a two person airplane with full fuel. I also found that in any weather, I would fly the Caravan because of the turbine reliability and more redundant systems. But that is not a fair knock on the Bonanza to compare it to a Caravan.

I flew the T210 out of Aspen with full fuel and four big guys inside. I flew out of ranch strips with four big guys. I would not/could not do it in the B36.

Long story way too long. We sold the B36. I still fly the Caravan. Kids are going to college. One dog is getting old. I am thinking about the next airplane. I change my mind every 5 minutes. I sure love flying that Caravan.

Ed

Good point Edward; the B36 or A36 and the 210 are in a class of their own with 6 seats. For another, different Beech - Cessna comparison it would probably be The 182's compared to the Beech 35's, but I don't know my Beech models very well.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 19:01

All seats in the 210 or any single engine Cessna for that matter face forward. Anyone prefer flying backwards?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 19:25

Quote:

Cessnas make a mediocre pilot look bad.

How is that possible?? Cessnas have "Land-O-Matic" gear....!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 19:25

Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.

Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.

I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.

Gotta Love It!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 19:28

Username Protected wrote:

Quote:

Cessnas make a mediocre pilot look bad.

How is that possible?? Cessnas have "Land-O-Matic" gear....!

Yeah, they need to talk to Marketing about that. :thumbup:

Fortunately, my wife doesn't know the plane has "Land-O- Matic" gear, or she'd be asking me why I don't use it. :eek:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 20:55

Username Protected wrote:

Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.

Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.

I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.

Gotta Love It!

I thought it was more logarithmic. Each bump in speed/capability adds a digit...

Tim

Username Protected · **Posted:** 21 May 2018, 23:14

Username Protected wrote:

Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.

Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.

I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.

Gotta Love It!

Same trip, same speed. My useful is 1483 in my 36, so you have me by a few lbs on paper. I’m burning 12.3/hr to do it. Are you runnin LOP? Sure is easy to load with those big doors! :cheers:

I was about to pull the trigger on a 210. Bank backed out which was good in the long run; insurance is nearly double for a 210, and even more for a T210! That was enough to send me to a 36.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 22 May 2018, 00:28

Username Protected wrote:

Bonanza's are certainly nice planes, but hard to beat my 1980 C-210N with the IO-550P. We'll go from LEX to DTS (470 nm), in about 3 hours with 4 adults, a weeks worth of luggage, 3 sets of golf clubs, and the dog.

Useful load is just over 1500#, with full fuel payload nearly 1,000#.

I'd like something faster and cooler, but the premium is exponential.

Gotta Love It!

Same trip, same speed. My useful is 1483 in my 36, so you have me by a few lbs on paper. I’m burning 12.3/hr to do it. Are you runnin LOP? Sure is easy to load with those big doors! :cheers:

I was about to pull the trigger on a 210. Bank backed out which was good in the long run; insurance is nearly double for a 210, and even more for a T210! That was enough to send me to a 36.

210 vs Bo AOPA Style