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 Post subject: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 09:18 
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Joined: 07/10/11
Posts: 194
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Location: Columbus, OH
Aircraft: B55, DA900, DA2000
I just want to give a shout out for Falcon Jets if any of you corporate Chiefs on here are looking at Super Midsize bizjets. I have flown and typed in most manufacturers planes and have yet to even come close to the quality, handling, efficiency, safety, and redundancy in design philosophy that Dassault offers. Cross the ocean at Mach .80 or .84, and flys in the pattern better than a King Air or Citation. No aerodynamic bandaids on the wing, the planes are really a work of art. Yes expensive to buy new and parts aren't cheap, but good 2000EXs can be had for great prices. Flat floor, wide cabin and way cheaper to operate than a Gulfstream which is narrower across. Short runways and steep approaches no problem. There just isn't anything better IMO.


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DA2Easy, DA2000, EMB550, B737, DA50, LR60, LR45, LR JET, BE400, MU300, BE300, CE500 ; CFII SEL MEL


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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 09:22 
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Joined: 12/12/07
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Location: Dallas, TX (KADS)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
I've read before the theory that, if it looks good, it will function well.

The Falcons look exquisite, so no surprised that they're known for good function. I don't know any pilots who fly them, and don't love them.

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 09:29 
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Joined: 09/10/13
Posts: 2278
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Location: Lexington, KY
Aircraft: B95A Z526F SU26
Go figure the company that created the two best engineering CAD programs and engineering product management software also can make a great aircraft.

I don’t know their jets, but I do drive their computer software

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 09:48 
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Joined: 02/07/16
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Location: KPMP, WMSA (Kuala Lumpur) Paris (LFPB)
Aircraft: Work Falcon Fun Duke
Hello Jim, great post, I fly a 2000S for the last 4 years. Prior to that was all Challenger 600 series. My best comparison was the 2000S was like a Porsche Panamera and the Challengers like a Mercedes station wagon. I really love flying the 2000 its a great plane. :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 10:13 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
They seem extremely capable and well designed. I will always remember this old clip, where they basically take a Falcon 50 to Mach 1 and do 45 degree banks and 2G pull-ups, with no tuck, no vibration, even hands off at times.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/c7ojhYSSMKc[/youtube]

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 12:28 
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Joined: 10/14/14
Posts: 1732
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Company: Corporate Air Technology
Aircraft: Pa28-235
I will consider myself as part of the Falcon family, have maintained them for the last fifteen years. Crews love them, passengers love them, of all the corporate jet manufacturers we have found Dassault the most supportive.


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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 12:34 
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Joined: 08/05/11
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Username Protected wrote:
Hello Jim, great post, I fly a 2000S for the last 4 years. Prior to that was all Challenger 600 series. My best comparison was the 2000S was like a Porsche Panamera and the Challengers like a Mercedes station wagon. I really love flying the 2000 its a great plane. :cheers:


Always heard great things about the Falcons. Best inverted quote I ever heard comparing the Challenger was that the Challenger flew like the box the Falcon came in. :D Never flown either though.

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 12:37 
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Joined: 07/13/11
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Company: Aeronautical People Shuffler
Location: Picayune, MS (KHSA)
Aircraft: KA350/E55/DA-62
I fly a Falcon and they are truly an amazing aircraft. The 20 was their first business jet and has some remarkable characteristics. It hand flies like a dream.

Falcon 20s have no cycle limit, unlimited pressure cycles.

Falcon 20s have no stall protection, no shaker or pusher system, one of the only jets to have that.

The 20 was originally designed to be a bomber, and strong enough landing gear to make a carrier landing.

Zero aerodynamic fixes, no fins, no strakes. The fences on the wings are actually stiffeners to support the hard points in the wing. Cobham is one of the only operators that use the hard points.

The story behind the creator of Falcon Marcel Dassault is remarkable. He was born Marcel Blanc and pre WWII was one of the largest aircraft manufactures in France. Hilter approached Marcel to build aircraft for the Nazis and refused. Upon the outbreak of WWII, Marcel was captured by the Nazis and sent to a concentration camp for the duration of the war. His brother was in the French resistance his code name was Char D'assaut which translates to assault tank. Marcel was liberated from the camp and was given a coat by an American soldier, inside the coat was a four leaf clover. This the reason there is a four leaf clover on the logo. After the war, Marcel and his brother changed their last name to Dassault after his brother's code name.

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 13:00 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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I wonder what the annual budget would be to run a falcon 10 or 20 for 200hrs per year?

I know someone who is near the front of the pc24 line. They are planning on using two pilots with it. I keep trying to convince them to sell it as soon as they get it, but a falcon 20 with the money they made and keep their pc12.


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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 13:18 
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Joined: 07/13/11
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Company: Aeronautical People Shuffler
Location: Picayune, MS (KHSA)
Aircraft: KA350/E55/DA-62
We are in a situation were we have Falcon 20, we have a PC12 and a pretty early slot on the PC24.

The cost to keep the 20 going is a really difficult to judge. Each plane is different and because they are older and maintained differently. There are plenty of gotchas on top of the frequent inspection intervals.

I understand what you are saying with running the 20 for so much cheaper. I would recommend going with a Falcon 50ex instead. Those can be had for 4-5mil and have much better capabilities than the 20 with better product support. Dassault is projecting less than 100 20s left in service by 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 15:24 
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Joined: 05/06/10
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Location: KMBO Brandon, MS
I flew an early Falcon 20 for 17 years. It is now an almost extinct dinosaur but, still the best I ever flew. The French could being frustrating to deal with and they never let you "own" one of their products; you really only got the priviledge to pay for being its caretaker. The quality of workmanship in those airplanes was be beyond compare in anything that I have seen before or since. And, quality isn't cheap. Too bad time has passed it by.

MM


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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 16:02 
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Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8409
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Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Falcons are my favorite aircraft to work on. Access to all of the avionics is very easy.


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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 16:03 
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
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Username Protected wrote:
I flew an early Falcon 20 for 17 years.
MM


I remember working on yours a few times!


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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 16:14 
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Joined: 07/10/11
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Location: Columbus, OH
Aircraft: B55, DA900, DA2000
Thanks all great posts. I find the CAD software comments very interesting. I agree I always tell people Dassault is a fabulous engineering company that happens to build airplanes!

Thanks all for following up!

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Dassault
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2017, 16:14 
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Joined: 05/06/10
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Location: KMBO Brandon, MS
Username Protected wrote:
I flew an early Falcon 20 for 17 years.
MM


I remember working on yours a few times!


That, you did. And I never had to come back for anything you repaired. Thanks for your good work, Terry. :thumbup:

MM

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