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17 Apr 2024, 21:52 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 09:39 
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Last edited on 06 Oct 2017, 09:46, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 09:42 
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I am accepting investments via paypal.

What, no bitcoin?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:04 
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Mike, the way you fly today, is to get to altitude by using 100% of your power, but then you reduce for max cruise to maybe 65%. As you know, any turbine is very inefficient below 100%. So in a hybrid scenario, it would make sense to have multiple APU's scaled so that you might need, let's say, 3 of them to provide takeoff power, but then at cruise you shut one down and have the remaining two both at 100% producing the power needed for cruise portion. That's where they're at the most efficient. That will end up saving a lot of fuel.

Turbine aircraft are not flown like that today. If we pull back, our SFC goes up considerably. And if we don't pull back, our drag stays unreasonably high. Only in a hybrid solution could you perfect the power needed for cruise (best drag), without every having to reduce the APU's power (best engine efficiency).

It's gonna happen. Now we're looking at the demise of combustion engines in our own lifetime and just 3 years ago nobody would have been considered sane if they suggested such a thing.

Digital cameras would never work on paper either because they couldn't match the resolution of film. They still can't to this day. Yet, here we are with nobody using film.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:12 
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If we pull back, our SFC goes up considerably. And if we don't pull back, our drag goes up. Only in a hybrid solution could you perfect the power needed for cruise (best drag), without every having to reduce the APU's power (best engine efficiency).

The problem with that theory is that no one wants to cruise at the best drag speed. Turbines only lose 10-15% efficiency when operated at less than max power so you could easily pull the power back, go slower, and still have a net increase in fuel economy (look at the best range power charts in your POH). But no one does that because people buy airplanes to go fast, period.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:23 
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Yes, but people also want to run the AC on the ground and cool the cabin without a GPU. Or be able to taxi out as nr 7 in line for takeoff, wait on your clearance on battery power alone (and not stress about fuel and noise). Maybe do a local commute flight on battery power alone. Airports will eventually accept only, for noise abatement, that you have a hybrid aircraft, etc, etc.

With an APU or hybrid system you can do and meet all that.

It's not always about what is most efficient or best, it's what's most convenient. The history of innovation is full of products that were not more efficient or better, just more convenient. It will happen.

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Last edited on 06 Oct 2017, 11:30, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:30 
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Joined: 10/26/16
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Username Protected wrote:
Mike, the way you fly today, is to get to altitude by using 100% of your power, but then you reduce for max cruise to maybe 65%. As you know, any turbine is very inefficient below 100%. So in a hybrid scenario, it would make sense to have multiple APU's scaled so that you might need, let's say, 3 of them to provide takeoff power, but then at cruise you shut one down and have the remaining two both at 100% producing the power needed for cruise portion. That's where they're at the most efficient. That will end up saving a lot of fuel.

Turbine aircraft are not flown like that today. If we pull back, our SFC goes up considerably. And if we don't pull back, our drag stays unreasonably high. Only in a hybrid solution could you perfect the power needed for cruise (best drag), without every having to reduce the APU's power (best engine efficiency).

It's gonna happen. Now we're looking at the demise of combustion engines in our own lifetime and just 3 years ago nobody would have been considered sane if they suggested such a thing.

Digital cameras would never work on paper either because they couldn't match the resolution of film. They still can't to this day. Yet, here we are with nobody using film.


I'm fairly positive film resolution has been exceeded long time ago in 35mm format, not so much in the medium format. My little Sony RX1R seems to blow anything I've ever shot my with Leica out of the water, even when using fine grain film.

On a serious note, I don't ever recall "reducing" turbines at cruise at altitude? What are you referring to? They are running balls to the wall, producing all they can produce with the available air.


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:32 
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An electric version of a jet engine wouldn’t make noise?


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:39 
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I wish the feds would uncover the Aurora and show us what propulsion system does Mach 7 that is not a rocket engine.

I'm almost certain I've seen it fly over my ranch on its way to Edwards. Just a satellite look-a-like from our perspective but every 10 seconds or so it would light up a large yellow flash.

Whatever propulsion system it is it's not a jet or rocket and has been flying more than 20 years now.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
An electric version of a jet engine wouldn’t make noise?


Not when it's sitting waiting for a clearance or as no 7 inline for takeoff.

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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 11:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not when it's sitting waiting for a clearance or as no 7 inline for takeoff.

I don't think that's where the noise complaints come from.

I'm usually hooked to a GPU or on battery power waiting for a clearance.


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 12:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not when it's sitting waiting for a clearance or as no 7 inline for takeoff.

I don't think that's where the noise complaints come from.


Perhaps not. But I know that the electric prop planes, like the Pipistrel etc are considerably less noisy than the Rotax powered version with he same prop size, so it is probably safe to assume that a ducted electric fan will emit less noise than a combustion fanjet of the same size. But this is just pure speculation on my behalf.
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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 12:53 
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They could launch with a catapults to save power.


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 16:08 
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Username Protected wrote:

Perhaps not. But I know that the electric prop planes, like the Pipistrel etc are considerably less noisy than the Rotax powered version with he same prop size, so it is probably safe to assume that a ducted electric fan will emit less noise than a combustion fanjet of the same size. But this is just pure speculation on my behalf.

Here is a nice video about "quiet flight" from over a year ago. It does seem a lot quieter to fly electric. Erik Lindbergh says "It's awesome to see this plane flying, right overhead, 500 feet above. We're right underneath it and you can barely hear it...what really struck me was that absence of noise."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlwKTZk5S-8

And this isn't even a ducted fan. That might be even quieter.


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 16:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
An electric version of a jet engine wouldn’t make noise?

Much less.


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 Post subject: Re: Zunum Aero
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2017, 16:31 
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An electric version of a jet engine wouldn’t make noise?

Much less.

Well, we got that going for us then.

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