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 Post subject: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2017, 21:38 
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Seem to be a good value. What are the drawbacks? Is one model preferred?

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2017, 22:03 
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You will never be able to sell it.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2017, 22:05 
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That's just a turbocharged 310...

I think the "drawbacks" are that they're all more than 50 years old and -- like many old twins -- it's not easy to find one that's flying regularly and is well loved and cared for...

If you find one like that, they're great ....and not expensive to buy.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 00:06 
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For a looong time , 320 Sky Knights were the hangar queens. I have no Idea why they were less popular than 310s of the day. But they seemed to be in hangar corners and weedy tie downs.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 00:28 
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This Cat - Jerry W - on youtube has a great channel depicting his almost daily flights in his 320. He goes over EVERYTHING!! Great videos when you have time to kill. Makes me want a Cessna 320.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HOLLYWGE/videos

I think there may be some good opportunities out there when most everyone won't touch an airframe. Probably the opposite when you're selling :dancing:

Another guy is (was) out there flying his old straight tail 310 all over Florida. Looks like a great twin too.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Giventofly ... =0&sort=dd


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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 00:30 
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Joined: 01/02/08
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Username Protected wrote:
That's just a turbocharged 310...

Actually Arlen, they are not! I believe the 320 has a different type certificate and is the same one the 335 and 340 were manufactured on. The 310 has a very comfortable cabin and the 320 even more so (yeah, some of us Baron guys are jealous about that).

There is no problem with the 320D (1966), 320E (1967), or the last produced 320F (1968) as they all have the TSIO-520 series engine which is fully supported. The 320 (1962) through the 320C (1965) have the TSIO-470 engine which is not supported so well. There was a period of time that new pistons were no longer being manufactured by Continental. Don't know if that is still true or if there is now an aftermarket supplier.

The 320 has the same issues as the T-310 with repetitive exhaust system inspections and landing gear weaknesses (us Baron guys are not jealous in this department) that are common: failure of the MLG sidebrace if the reinforcement kit was not installed and issues with the nose landing gear retract mechanism.

I have flown a 320E and really liked the plane despite the fact that I experienced the Dutch roll that an inexperienced Twin Cessna pilot (me) could induce with ease. It was fast and it was relatively quiet in the cabin, especially compared to the Baron which is noisy as heck. Did I mention it was super comfortable?

There were not many 320's produced by comparison to the 310 but I would not hesitate to buy one if I was without airplane and a good 320D,E, or F came on the market. You just don't see that very often.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2017, 00:49 
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Username Protected wrote:
This Cat - Jerry W - on youtube has a great channel depicting his almost daily flights in his 320. He goes over EVERYTHING!! Great videos when you have time to kill. Makes me want a Cessna 320.

https://www.youtube.com/user/HOLLYWGE/videos

I think there may be some good opportunities out there when most everyone won't touch an airframe. Probably the opposite when you're selling :dancing:

Another guy is (was) out there flying his old straight tail 310 all over Florida. Looks like a great twin too.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Giventofly ... =0&sort=dd

Very cool - thanks for posting Jerry's videos with his 320D adventures. He's got a very "dialed in" SkyKnight. Watch the primary engine instruments - they are matched like few twins I have owned or flown.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 00:07 
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I have a few hours in a Colemill 320. If you've flown a 310 then you've flown a 320. It's a roomy plane and the owner loves it. I told him to call me first if he decides to look for a partner.

All things being more or less equal, I'd go with a 320 over a 310. The 36' span may be a bit tight for a standard T-hangar though. It is an an odd bird so it may be tough to sell down the road, too.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 21:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have a few hours in a Colemill 320. If you've flown a 310 then you've flown a 320. It's a roomy plane and the owner loves it. I told him to call me first if he decides to look for a partner.

All things being more or less equal, I'd go with a 320 over a 310. The 36' span may be a bit tight for a standard T-hangar though. It is an an odd bird so it may be tough to sell down the road, too.

The Colemill 320 is a good way to avoid complications of the TSIO-470. I've always been impressed with the performance and cabin comfort of the TSIO-520 powered 320's.


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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 22:11 
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What is a Colemill 320? I'm guessing they put IO-550's or Navajo Cheiftain engines on them?

edit: found they are actually "just" TSIO-520's


Last edited on 16 Sep 2017, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 22:16 
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At some point there were issues with supportability of the turbos.


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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 22:22 
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Username Protected wrote:
At some point there were issues with supportability of the turbos.

With 470 power? The 520 turbo has no support issues that I'm aware of.

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2017, 23:47 
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<snip> failure of the MLG sidebrace if the reinforcement kit was not installed and issues with the nose landing gear retract mechanism. <snip>

I respectfully disagree. The Side Brace kit addresses cracks in the wing rib due to excessive side loading. This is usually caused by high speed turns while taxiing. Over time this back and forth flexing begins cracking the rib at the clearance holes. The cracks are often hard to see until they progress, but unless and until the rib completely fails the steel forging holding the MLG upper link provides sufficent support as it is tied to the top and bottom of the rib gussets.

Gear failures are due to mis-rigging and worn parts. The main gear usually fails at the highly stressed bell crank assembly, which lifts the entire weight of the gear leg and holds it down over center. It is made of forged aluminum and snaps at the pivot when overloaded.
Attachment:
C310_MLG_weakspots.jpg

The nose gear usually fails at the nose gear idler arm, which connects the rear push rod from the gear box to the front push rod to the nose gear torque tube. It too is made of lightweight forged aluminum and couples the rods at different radii, thus amplifying the linear movement and undergoing a bending moment with each cycle. When it snaps the nose gear dangles and folds up on landing.
Attachment:
C310_NLG_weakspots.jpg

Then there are the MLG torque tubes. These develop cracks which then fail to drive the MLG link over center. Cessna went through about 6 revisions starting with 1-1/2" diameter tubes before moving to 2" diameter, which required a hole at one pivot for clearance. This hole was then replaced with a depression, which wasn't deep enough, causing wear on a bearing mount. Deeper depression, bigger fork bolts, added gussets, thicker metal, etc. The current version, which is not life limited to 4000 hrs per an MSB, costs $7.5K EACH. You need a pair, one for each side.
Attachment:
5045010-33_1.jpg

If I only knew then what I know now I would have bought a B55 Baron instead of my C310. :ahhh: The engineering on the landing gear IMHO is so overstressed that I am amazed it works as well as it does (until it breaks) and Cessna made and sold so many of these planes. Inspecting the gear for cracks, keeping everything well lubricated and checking the rigging at each annual is the only way to prevent gear failures. I believe Mike Busch pretty much came to that same conclusion with his T310R.


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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2017, 00:06 
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I think we agree completely - you just know a hell of a lot more than I do when it comes to the weak points in the 310/320 landing gear design. Excellent post!

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 Post subject: Re: What is wrong with Cessna 320's
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2017, 13:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
What is a Colemill 320? I'm guessing they put IO-550's or Navajo Cheiftain engines on them?

edit: found they are actually "just" TSIO-520's


If I recall, the Colemill 320 replaces the TSIOs with 300hp IO-550s.

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