An FBO I work with is about to take delivery of a 1967 Cessna 310L. I'm trying to help them figure out what a competitive rate is for a basic IFR 310 (NA Conti -470s, non-WAAS, no boots). The rental comps I can find are in the high $300/hr range but they are also decently equipped 310Rs. Not exactly an apples:apples to a mid-60s basic 310.

1.) Am I off-base at ~$250/hr? (ignoring costs, just looking for a market rate)
2.) Does anyone have a lead on vintage 310 rental rates?

Couple points:
-- if it's an L model, it's 1967
-- what's the insurance cost of renting out a 310?
-- is the $250/hr dry or wet? If you're buying the $100/hr of fuel with that rental price, I don't think you'll make any money..

Seminole/duchess seem to run $250. Anything under $300 wet is way off base.

But unless you have reasonable solo minimums (ie not 250 multi and 25 in type) it's not going anywhere anyway.

PA44s go $275/hr here (wet) and they're "airworthy, HSI, 530W, but far from nice."

$250 wet would be too low for a 310 up here, given the higher fuel burn.

Typo, sorry. '67. [corrected] Wet rate.

I agree that 310s are not low cost trainers. A 310 was not at the top of my list but then I'm also just a hired hand, and a part time one at that. The 310 was chosen to satisfy management's desire for a good traveling airplane -and- a twin that could also be used as a multi trainer when needed.

It looks like ~$300 is in the ballpark, likely a little higher.

I'd think $300/hr would be a pretty attractive rate, but I also think the ceiling is pretty short on that one. When you start drifting toward the $350/hr range, I think most people will just stop looking. For what it's worth, the local "inexpensive" rental operation has a 58 Baron (an old Airnet bird, to give you an idea of condition) that they rent for $395/hr, and a Seneca I that rents for $260. The Seneca looks to fly a couple of times per week, the Baron isn't even on their online schedule at this point and from what I've heard it doesn't fly much at all.

310R de ice with gns 530w, hsi, autopilot and radar. $520.00/hr wet. A buddy is penciling out a 58 to put on the line. Insurance, mx, fuel, depreciation - $700.00 an hour. He is rethinking his position. I would think a 1967 310 basic airframe would be over $400.00 an hour wet at least around here. Commercial insurance i would bet is 5 digits annually.

310R equipped like that is a pretty different airplane than the 310 John's talking about.

The PA44 at $275/hr mostly sits. At $500+/hr, I don't think a 310R would move much around here either.

I imagine most non-trainer twins don't do well on rental lines. High price and high insurance requirements don't help. The flight school I worked at had a few different twins at various times; none of them flew much, and very rarely outside multi engine training.

For comparison, we have a Seneca II with dual 430w and Aspen 2000, nice P&I (for a rental anyways) and rents for 208/hr DRY. I have difficulty getting time in it because it is always either flying or off on a trip.

I think a dry rate for a twin is advantageous. It incentivizes some level of economy. If I'm cruising on a dry rate you bet I'm leaning the engines out appropriately.. if it's wet I don't really care. The difference in cost to the FBO in terms of wasted fuel in a twin can be real.

Plus it makes it look cheaper :-)

Dry rate on a turbo twin - that's bold. The rational renter response would be oh about 75% power at 50ROP

Flying your own aircraft is not an exercise in rational thinking.

There are two distinct advantages to a dry rate here:

1) It makes the per-hour rates I have to disclose to the wife look more favorable.

2) It allows me to believe it is cheaper to fly the Seneca than the SR22 or V35B because those are wet rates and I don't look at the fuel receipt when I fly the Seneca. If I actually did the math and realized it was probably $315 per hour I almost certainly would not fly it as much. Oh crap...I did the math

In Dayton, OH a Seneca wet goes for $255/hour with Garmin 530W....Aztec for $250/hour dual only.

that's a little amusing, since the best intentioned renter could easily cook a seneca's engines, while TRW himself couldn't damage an aztec

I'm paying $300 wet for an "I" model with a 430 in Fort Worth, TX.