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19 Apr 2024, 04:51 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 12:04 
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Joined: 04/28/12
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Location: Kansas City, MO (KMKC)
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Username Protected wrote:
In Dayton, OH a Seneca wet goes for $255/hour with Garmin 530W....Aztec for $250/hour dual only.

that's a little amusing, since the best intentioned renter could easily cook a seneca's engines, while TRW himself couldn't damage an aztec

:coffee:
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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2017, 12:05 
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Joined: 08/16/15
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Location: Portland, OR
Aircraft: Prusinski'ing
I'm surprised you can get full commercial insurance on a 310 with solo renter privileges. I couldn't back when I looked. PA44 or Be76 only.

A 310 is gonna lose its ass. Even in a "club" setting, which I think is the most efficient way to do non-150/172/PA28 aircraft rentals anymore. That said, you should try to get a club together around the thing so you can draw fixed monthly dues when it doesn't fly. It's gonna sit a LOT.

You should absolutely rent it dry, hobbs if so-installed. (install one if not so-installed!) There is too large of a variance with opex otherwise, and dry is really the only "fair" thing to everyone. I'd also consider a recording engine analyzer and require renters to never exceed 400F CHT or something, so that CR's scenario doesn't play out. Charge a $50 fine for exceedences more than 10 seconds, and $250 for more than 5 minutes. :D

I've never run a 310 in comm service, but based on the weird twins I have tried (PA30, BE55), I'd expect that $195 dry is the "sweet spot" that gets a few punters and loses the least money. :D

I'd try it at $159/mo, minimum 3 month, 195 dry.

Also incentivize casual flyers with a $139/mo, 175 dry, minimum 12 month plan. Those guys will fly a lot in month 1 and 2, then send you an extra $1400-for-nuthin when they get busy and the novelty wears off.

$0.02.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 04:11 
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Joined: 09/15/12
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Location: London, UK
Aircraft: '79 e55 te-1159
Just for reference a Cougar GA-7 that my brother rents here in the UK is £350/hour so $450 and the hobbs meter starts recording over 60 knots. The plane doesn't get used much and barely covers its fixed costs. Recently it is getting used more but the constant engine shut downs for ME training seems to necessitate regular cylinder replacement. To hire her wet for touring would be much better but no real demand here given the lack of current ME pilots due to fuel prices. Avgas at our field is £1.65/$2.15/litre.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 12:15 
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Joined: 04/28/09
Posts: 198
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Aircraft: C-310K
As a 310 owner & MEI, I can say that I would put rental rate at $350/hr...and expect NO takers.

If I were serious about renting it out/flight instruction,

1. I would charge $150/hr as a dry rate. The caveat is the plane is returned and tanks topped off locally by the fuel truck.

2. I would give recommended power settings for climb & cruise...310s can be run as economically as 150kts at 18gph or 172kts at 21gph.

3. I would not nickel & dime on CHTs...that's a recipe for non-repeat business.

4. I would have a reasonable solo requirement...10-15hrs dual...no one will pay 50hrs dual or whatever unreasonable FBO money-making schemes that are normal.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 13:17 
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Joined: 01/25/15
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Username Protected wrote:
As a 310 owner & MEI, I can say that I would put rental rate at $350/hr...and expect NO takers.

If I were serious about renting it out/flight instruction,

1. I would charge $150/hr as a dry rate. The caveat is the plane is returned and tanks topped off locally by the fuel truck.

2. I would give recommended power settings for climb & cruise...310s can be run as economically as 150kts at 18gph or 172kts at 21gph.

3. I would not nickel & dime on CHTs...that's a recipe for non-repeat business.

4. I would have a reasonable solo requirement...10-15hrs dual...no one will pay 50hrs dual or whatever unreasonable FBO money-making schemes that are normal.


I would be knocking at your door at $150/hr dry. Problem is, I don't think you could get it insured for 10-15hrs dual renters.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2017, 20:29 
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Joined: 06/12/11
Posts: 309
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Company: Fly By Knight, Inc.
Location: KHDC, Hammond LA.
Aircraft: H35, B58, PA28, PA34
We get $230/hr wet for our GA7 Cougar, I'd guess that 90% to 95% is ME instruction with no cylinder problems - both Lyc factory overhauls, the high time one is around 1500smoh.

Our insurance requirements as dictated by the ins co are:
300TT, ME PVT & INST. 50 hours ME with 10 hours in type. If you don't have 50 hours ME then a 15 hour checkout is required with an FBK instructor. If you have 50 hours ME but no time in type then 5 hour checkout.

We do have flexibility to make a case with the underwriter to get less than the 5 hr checkout for well qualified individuals.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 20:23 
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Joined: 12/12/14
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Location: Boise, ID
Part of the problem here is for all intents and purposes, this is a VFR and basic take-the-checkride IFR airplane. Without WAAS or other cross country niceties, it's a pretty basic plane.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 20:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
We get $230/hr wet for our GA7 Cougar, I'd guess that 90% to 95% is ME instruction with no cylinder problems - both Lyc factory overhauls, the high time one is around 1500smoh.

Our insurance requirements as dictated by the ins co are:
300TT, ME PVT & INST. 50 hours ME with 10 hours in type. If you don't have 50 hours ME then a 15 hour checkout is required with an FBK instructor. If you have 50 hours ME but no time in type then 5 hour checkout.

We do have flexibility to make a case with the underwriter to get less than the 5 hr checkout for well qualified individuals.


How busy are you guys with the GA7, and how quickly can you get a multi done? (ideally in 2-3 days) I need my commercial multi, yesterday...


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 22:01 
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Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 5003
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
People with the means to rent a 310 will not think that $350-$400 is out of the question and you will find 310s on the line for between $300 and $450 with many around the $350-$400 range.

Until the Cirrus and the CAPS systems many people that learned to fly twins were either building twin time for the airlines or wanted to fly twins for speed and safety. Many of the folks in that latter category are in SR-22s for around $250/hr. A student pilot scraping together his/her pennies will almost always opt for the $250/hr training bird. Given both of those scenarios, your target market is limited.

Back a few years ago I rented a gorgeous N model with the President conversion in Huntington, WV. While She climbed like a homesick angel, She emptied a wallet like the devil on a spending spree. It was an acceptable hourly rate of $395/wet and we leaned it properly and didn't try to push the throttles through the firewall as some renters will do. It carried 5 people comfortably and it was a really clean plane with steam gauges and a 430.

There is a flying club in Ohio that has a nicely equipped 310 on the line for $365/wet for members and $392/wet for nonmembers.

There was a 310 on the line here in Leesburg that was $350 if I recall correctly. It went offline before I could rent it.

Beyond that there are a dozen and a half results from Bing and Google with planes in FL, WY, OH, and other fun places. Some of those schools, clubs, and flight centers may be willing to entertain questions about their operational costs and experiences.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 22:44 
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Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
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People with the means to rent a 310 are going to just buy one.


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 22:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
People with the means to rent a 310 are going to just buy one.


Not true. I would pay $350/hr right away for 25 hours - I need 25 hours ME and I'd rather do it in a high performance twin, because that represents the plane I intend to fly next (without buying one).


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2017, 23:27 
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Joined: 10/21/12
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Location: SW USA
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Username Protected wrote:
Part of the problem here is for all intents and purposes, this is a VFR and basic take-the-checkride IFR airplane. Without WAAS or other cross country niceties, it's a pretty basic plane.


Well, we disagree.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 00:48 
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Location: Portland, OR
Aircraft: Prusinski'ing
Username Protected wrote:
People with the means to rent a 310 will not think that $350-$400 is out of the question and you will find 310s on the line for between $300 and $450 with many around the $350-$400 range.


For the cost of 100 hours' worth of rental, I can own any number of 310s and not deal with FBO shenanigans as they try to dig out of the hole they put themselves in via $8,000 insurance premiums or maintenance costs for a plane sold when the president was named Lyndon and is now being used to teach 150 hour wonder pilots how to cage engines and land a plane that weighs two skyhawks worth.

:shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 05:57 
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Joined: 06/12/11
Posts: 309
Post Likes: +55
Company: Fly By Knight, Inc.
Location: KHDC, Hammond LA.
Aircraft: H35, B58, PA28, PA34
Username Protected wrote:
We get $230/hr wet for our GA7 Cougar, I'd guess that 90% to 95% is ME instruction with no cylinder problems - both Lyc factory overhauls, the high time one is around 1500smoh.

Our insurance requirements as dictated by the ins co are:
300TT, ME PVT & INST. 50 hours ME with 10 hours in type. If you don't have 50 hours ME then a 15 hour checkout is required with an FBK instructor. If you have 50 hours ME but no time in type then 5 hour checkout.

We do have flexibility to make a case with the underwriter to get less than the 5 hr checkout for well qualified individuals.


How busy are you guys with the GA7, and how quickly can you get a multi done? (ideally in 2-3 days) I need my commercial multi, yesterday...


We stay busy with it, yes we do the 3 day multi, next availability to do one looks like week of 10/23.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Rate for C310 Rentals
PostPosted: 01 Sep 2017, 15:10 
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Joined: 12/12/14
Posts: 917
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Location: Boise, ID
Username Protected wrote:
Part of the problem here is for all intents and purposes, this is a VFR and basic take-the-checkride IFR airplane. Without WAAS or other cross country niceties, it's a pretty basic plane.


Well, we disagree.


The demand in the local rental/cross country market here (Pacific northwest/mountain west) wants a HSI, autopilot, and WAAS-GPS. The 182's around here that travel have these features, and the ones that get tons of hours for training don't have these and do fine.

Most twins of this caliber I see around here and and local flight schools do have these things.

None of these make financial sense to add to the plane, but the WAAS upgrade is probably worthwhile. On the other hand, when you buy, you can get it loaded with all these options for pennies on the dollar. I've seen some twins for on here where the ebay value of the avionics was literally 50% of the hull :)

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