^ this!!!

so I used to agonize over the bills (although I've gotten better)- but when I take off, I know I'm doing the right thing...

money is only worth what you do with it. and we fly!

Thatcher, have you given any thought to a Malibu? It would check off a lot of your boxes for an all in cost in between an A36 and 421. It's easily within the budget you mention, pressurized, 210kts cruise, plenty of UL for the mission you describe, 6 seats. The club seating area is very roomy. The front seats require a little dance to get in but is quite comfortable once there. Fuel burn is roughly on par with the A36. You would give up some of the roominess of a twin Cessna and baggage volume would be roughly the same as what you have in the A36, perhaps slightly larger. Opex would be considerably less than 421.

I assumed he was talking 6 adults, maybe a bad assumption, but 4 adults in the back of a Malibu is going to be pretty intimate.

It's a club layout but the airstair is between the club. 4 adults in the back of a Malibu is fine for a 250nm trip.

I still say twin bonanza. If you just want SPACE for 6 people on a 250nm trip, that's going to work really nicely.

Yea I've been in one. Adult knees will be staggered one way or another.

I also looked at the Malibu- but we sold the A36 because I ran out of space before i ran out of weight. I can't be the only one in that situation.

nice plane, but not nearly as well built as Beech or C300/400 series (as I'm sure people here know).

The Malibu isn't a twin cessna - but nose and tail baggage are much bigger than a 36. May not be bigger enough to matter, but it's notably bigger.

The Malibu isn't a twin cessna - but nose and tail baggage are much bigger than a 36. May not be bigger enough to matter, but it's notably bigger.

My assumption was that Thatcher is completing the mission today in the A36. If that's the case, the Malibu would offer a nice step up in room, performance and pressurization. Acquisition cost and fuel burn would be on par with an A36 but mx costs are certainly going to be higher. I would also expect higher insurance costs and a possibility of recurrent training as a requirement for insurance. It would be a nice incremental step up from an A36.

A Twin Cessna (esp a 421 / 414) would be an exceptional step up with far more room, far more baggage capacity and much quieter, smoother ride than both an A36 and Malibu. The overall cost of ownership would be another healthy step up from a Malibu.

I think it comes down to budget and what the owner is willing to tolerate. Based on what it would cost me to buy and operate an A36, Malibu and C421 for 100 hrs / yr and using the A36 as a baseline, the Malibu would cost me 37% more to own / operate and the C421 would cost 84% more to own / operate.

So, if I were Thatcher and took my all-in costs of the A36 and could afford to spend close to 2X what I'm spending to fly today, I'd buy a C421 in a heartbeat. If I could only afford 1.5X what I'm spending today, I'd buy a Malibu. There's probably a bit of conservatism in all that but you also have to be mindful that the pricetag of the potential 'oh sh!ts ' are quite a bit higher than an A36, so best to have some coin in the bank in case something comes up in either case.

Don, the only thing that concerns me about the Malibu is their engine. I have heard bad stories about the Lycoming. Also, I have never been in a Malibu but have heard it is a little tight up front. I'm 6'3 so I do not know how well I would fit. I would love to climb around/ride in one though. Also forgot to mention that mission would normally be 2-3 adults and the rest (if any) would be kids. What is useful load of a Malibu?

Pa46 has gotten fat like a36/g36

Early ones have 1300+. 300lb fuel goes a long way. Full tanks i once flew cps-slt nonstop

Does anybody want to take a stab at the difference in opex between a C421 and a C425?

Hilgard

I'll take a stab...

All-in (financing, ins, training, hangar, opex, engine reserves, etc) apples to apples and including an annual 'budget' for SIDS inspections, my math puts the Conquest I at 50-60% higher all in costs on a per hour basis. I'm no master at SIDS inspections costs but I've been told budgeting $300K over a 10 year period of time is a good start. Maybe that's good, maybe it's not.

Considering it's faster, you're going to get about 20% more miles out of the Conquest compared to 421.

421C. 500 to 600 per hour for 100 hours per year.
425. 1200 to 1500 per hour based on 100 hours per year

This is from my tenants who actually own and operate 425's 100 hours per year.

Part 91 and assuming not doing an OH at 3600? I budget $1000 and hope for $800 all in on 175 hours/yr and cruise at 280-285. Fuel programs are huge as well as mission profile. My first two years of ownership have been a very pleasant surprise. I will be under $3/gallon a both ends of my trip today.