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 Post subject: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 22:10 
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Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
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Building an airplane has been on my bucket list for a long time. Before Oshkosh one of my sons said "Dad, we really should get going on this airplane building idea". I thought, "you know he's right". He and his brother will be leaving home in a couple of years, we'd best get started.

I'd always thought I'd build an RV-8, but now I'm starting to think about something low and slow. The one that's caught my eye is the Ran S-7s courier. A couple of thing I like about it; it looks like you can build one a lot faster than an RV-8 we might actually get it finished before he heads to college. Also, I think it would be a better plane for my son to learn in than an RV-8.

Does anyone have any experience with these planes? I talked to them at Oshkosh, and I'm going to fly out to Hays in the next couple of weeks to see the factory. Anything I should be thinking about or questions I should be asking.

Eventually putting it on floats would be part of the game plan.
Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 22:27 
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I like those, too. Tandem seating and both doors are full swing-up. The ideal configuration for low and slow Summer flying.

I guess the back seat can get a bit blustery, but have wondered if some draft dodgers or vanes could be added to help mitigate.

Username Protected wrote:
Building an airplane has been on my bucket list for a long time. Before Oshkosh one of my sons said "Dad, we really should get going on this airplane building idea". I thought, "you know he's right". He and his brother will be leaving home in a couple of years, we'd best get started.

I'd always thought I'd build an RV-8, but now I'm starting to think about something low and slow. The one that's caught my eye is the Ran S-7s courier. A couple of thing I like about it; it looks like you can build one a lot faster than an RV-8 we might actually get it finished before he heads to college. Also, I think it would be a better plane for my son to learn in than an RV-8.

Does anyone have any experience with these planes? I talked to them at Oshkosh, and I'm going to fly out to Hays in the next couple of weeks to see the factory. Anything I should be thinking about or questions I should be asking.

Eventually putting it on floats would be part of the game plan.
Jack

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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 22:43 
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Joined: 08/26/15
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Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
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Speaking from experience on my 50% complete, 90% to go Kitfox, I'd double the build time estimates (a lot of that extra time is staring at the instructions and re-reading them to be absolutely-positively-totally-most-assuredly-definitely sure that you do the next job right... and the Kitfox came with really good instructions, by the way). I thought the quick build options were worth it, good bang for the buck.

This Rans kit looks to have a lot of things in common with the Kitfoxes.

Definitely follow through on your planned factory visit.

Become active in a local EAA chapter (not necessarily the one geographically closest to you- they come in different flavors and low and slow, tube and fabric airplanes are just one kind of flavor) and find a good Rans builders' group online, wherever that happens to be out in cyberland.

I forgot the most important thing of all: don't be afraid to admit you screwed up on Part X, throw away your hard work, and start over with a second Part X... it's only time and money, really! Besides, after the first time you do that it gets much, much easier.


Last edited on 15 Aug 2017, 22:49, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 22:48 
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Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
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Jim

One of the things that I like about Rans is that the factory is in Hays Ks, only an hour and twenty minute flight from Kansas City. If I get stuck, I could just fly out there and ask them face to face. They build finished LSA airplanes out there and have 5 full time builders. I'm thinking that for things that I don't know how to do, fabric covering, I could just go there and watch them for a day.

There are two very good EAA chapters in Kansas City.

It does appear that the Rans is very similar to the Kitfox. I have my heart set on tandem seating, otherwise the Kitfox looks like an excellent plane.

How much time do you think you have in 90% finished, 50% to go project?

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 23:11 
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Jack, head over to http://www.backcountrypilot.org and sign up - ton of info on the Rans S7... one guy flies his from his front yard 3 or 4 times a week and can talk your eyes crossed about them.

Thats what I will build with my 2 boys when the time comes.

also chat with Mark Pringle at Rocky mountain kitplanes. The foremost expert on these.


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 23:16 
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How much time do you think you have in 90% finished, 50% to go project?

Hi Jack. Probably just under a thousand hours. I used to keep pretty close track of the time up until about 500 so that's an estimate.

My facetious percentages are the other way 'round- 50% finished and 90% to go. Another running joke is that I'll have it finished on "Tuesday," just not next Tuesday. Life got in the way, but I'll find time again. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 23:39 
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I was just looking at the S-7 photos on the Rans site, and it looks like the throttle lever is well below your knees . Is it just parallax, or is it really that far out of the way?


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 07:29 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
http://www.ransclan.com
Good site.

I've started two homebuilts, abandoning one and presently losing interest in the other. Van has said -- and he's right -- that before committing to a homebuilt project you should identify what you're going to give up in order to build an airplane. That is, what thing are you doing now that you'll quit doing so you can build? As Jim said, double the factory's time estimates. I'll add, halve the time you think you'll spend on it. Will you give it two hours every evening and eight hours on Saturday? Really? Some people do. Will your son work on it without you? What's he going to give up? Will you work on it without him, or will you only work when your schedules mesh?

The RANS estimate for an S-7 is, IIRC, 7-800 hours. People look at that and say, 8 or 10 hours a week, that's a hundred weeks or less. Two years. Great! But it's more likely a 1400-1600 hour project. Working an average of five hours a week, that's 300 weeks or 6 years.

I was interested in building a sailboat at one time. The best advice I got was, "Before you build the boat that'll take you around the world, build the dinghy for it." Here's my best advice. Before you commit to building a flying airplane, buy Pedal Plane plans from EAA and build that together. It uses the same skills of plans reading and integrating the plans and the manual. It'll also give you an idea of how easy it is to carve out the required time.

Good luck!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 08:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
http://www.ransclan.com
Good site.

I've started two homebuilts, abandoning one and presently losing interest in the other. Van has said -- and he's right -- that before committing to a homebuilt project you should identify what you're going to give up in order to build an airplane. That is, what thing are you doing now that you'll quit doing so you can build?


Stuart

That's probably one thing I have going for me, I'm already a shop denizen. In the winter, my idea of a good weekend is spending a couple of days in the shop. I've always got some kind of a project going on out there. Also, my shop is about perfect for building a plane; 1200 SpFt climate controlled. Basically a detached 4 car garage. It wouldn't take any kind of a lifestyle change to put 400 hours a year in on the project.

Rans does not give a time estimate for the project on their website, at least not that I can find. I talked to Randy Schlitter about it and he said that the time varies all over the map depending on the builder. He said that guys who don't dither can get them built in 500 hours, but some take 2000 hours. I'd expect that we'd fall somewhere in the middle, maybe 1200 hours. But that could be way off.

I'm committed to the idea of building an airplane. I don't want to get into a project thats going to take years and years; I want to fly the thing. The S-7 kit seems manageable; simple airplane with a very complete kit. I think I'll have a better idea of what I'm getting into once I've visited the factory.

Jack


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 09:01 
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When you get to Hays, Randy Schlitter will be the guy on the crazy custom built bicycle.
http://www.ransbikes.com/library/into-t ... es/itr087/


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 09:11 
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Here's the way I look at it.......the two years, or 6 years, or 17 years is going to pass regardless of whether you build an airplane or not. If you start you'll have an airplane at the end of that period, if you don't start you won't.

Life does get in the way. I was making good progress until I bought a tractor and tore the engine apart. I'm happy as long as I have a project :peace:

Robert

Edit: With a nice shop like you have be sure to get the wings on asap or you will miss the experience of every single person that looks at it asking how you are going to get it out ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 09:29 
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Looks like a ridiculously fun airplane to buzz around in!

This part of the description on the website got my attention:

"The Courier Kit ships in one crate that measures at 234"x34"x59" and weighs 1200 lbs."

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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 09:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
Looks like a ridiculously fun airplane to buzz around in!

This part of the description on the website got my attention:

"The Courier Kit ships in one crate that measures at 234"x34"x59" and weighs 1200 lbs."


VAN's has a sense of humor. This was the first box I received......mostly just a pile of sheet metal.


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 09:43 
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Jack, not to be a wet blanket but the floats comments makes me a little nervous. While other similar planes like the highlander readily got a gross weight increase for floats after some structural analysis, Rans apparently did the same analysis and then stalled for a long time on bumping the gross weight. I have to wonder if the eventual weight concession was from marketing overriding engineering. Gives me pause.


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 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 09:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
This part of the description on the website got my attention:

"The Courier Kit ships in one crate that measures at 234"x34"x59" and weighs 1200 lbs."

ISTR mine came in a crate about 16 feet long. The shipper brought it to their local minor hub and I hired a local towing company to bring it the rest of the way home on a flatbed tow truck. I talked with the driver and he took extra care (tipping 101), basically dumping it in my garage and then pushing it back inside. Carefully, of course. It worked out great. Lots of stories like this in the experimental/amateur-built world. Lots of stories like that in the towing world too, apparently- the driver didn't bat an eye and he remarked that the company does occasionally get odd jobs like mine.


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