banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 03:05 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 219 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 15  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2018, 16:44 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/09/10
Posts: 3632
Post Likes: +860
Location: KPAN
Aircraft: PA12
Username Protected wrote:
Is anyone else jealous of JL’s shop? Nicely done on that wing. Look foreword to your build pics... :cheers:


Yes yes I am! And you haven’t even seen upstairs yet!

And Jack I can’t wait to see pics of the boys sitting in it in the shop making airplane sounds.

_________________
520 M35, 7ECA, CL65, CE550, E170/190, B737
5/19 737
5/18 E170/190
8/17 CL65
3/17 CE500


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2018, 19:18 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
Nicholas is working on his license, has 8 or 10 hours so far. I'm hoping to see him fly the RANS in a year or so!

The upstairs of the shop has carpet, it's a complete waste of space.

As far as airplane noises, that's already started. :lol:


Jack


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2018, 22:35 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 08/01/11
Posts: 6691
Post Likes: +4354
Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
Jack,

Engine choice?

Anywhere to find out experimental engine prices? Chart?

How about a Lycoming experimental engine price list?

_________________
Fly High,

Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 08 Feb 2018, 23:22 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
I haven’t bought anything yet, but I’m 90% sure it will be a Rotax 912ULS. A big part of the reson I’m heading that way is that RANS has a vey complete firewall forward kit for the 912ULS. Supposedly with the 912 kit, when you run out of parts you add oil and gas then go flying. All the other engine options envolve custom engine mounts, modifying the cowling and a bunch of other work that I really don’t want to do.

I’m leaning towards getting a 912 with a big bore kit that takes the HP to 115. That would give the plane the same power to weight ratio as my Bonaza with the 550 when both are at gross: 12 ponds per HP. That seems like a good place to start. Aftermarket turbo kits are available and not too expensive. I might do that at a later date.

Frankly I’m sick to death of “airplane” engines. The Rotax sounds like it’s extremely reliable, cheap by GA standards, and parts cost make some kind of rational sense. Hell the whole engine only cost a little more than a top overhaul on a 550, and that’s brand new.

The plane should only weigh 750 pounds empty, 1500 ponds gross when it’s done, so 115 HP is actually quite a lot. Supposedly it will climb with a Carbon Cub or at least get pretty close.

I’ve been all over the web looking at engines and experimental stuff in general. I don’t know where to send you for Lycoming prices, but the Titan is getting good reviews. You should be able to find prices with just a little Googlefu.

As far as the Rotax, I’m either going to get it from RANS or one of the shops that specialize in big bore hopped up Rotax.

Jack


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 10 Feb 2018, 15:56 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/29/10
Posts: 5681
Post Likes: +4872
Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
Location: Wichita Valley Airport (F14)
Aircraft: Bonanza G35
Username Protected wrote:
something not right there. the stewart system uses a charcoal-based coating for the UV block. The liquids are all water-based and easy to work with. Paint adhesion over the top is very good, you see people using just about anything for paint. IMO your friends had something else going on there.


Not easy to work with. One of the guys is an A&P and has painted before. Another friend happened by for a few months last winter and helped out during painting, he's an IA up in Alaska and has painted a lot. While he was here he rebuilt a 175 and did some painting since the booth was set up in the hangar. He wouldn't touch that type paint again either. Their original plan was to take the plane to the local body shop but got talked into this way of doing it. They won't make that mistake again.

Guys who paint for a living can get married to one system. They get good at that product after a sometimes long apprentiship then don’t have the time or the patience to learn a different system. Nothing wrong with that - they are working for a living so doing things fast is necessary if you want to make any money. Using a new system takes time and, if the results are not up to snuff, can damage your reputation, so lots of pros find one system and stick with what they know and are good at. That’s just good business sense.

A home builder is starting from zero and will need to spend some time learning whatever system he uses plus he’s not running a business so the time spent learning is just part of the experience.

Scott, I’m not saying that’s the case with your friends but I’ve seen some outstanding painters who either refused to use anything other than “their” system or who messed up when using a different system for the first time.
_________________
FTFA RTFM


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 13:18 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
Wings and control surfaces primed and ready for Oratex. Shippment is coming from Germany and should be here Friday.

Attachment:
IMG_6176.JPG

Attachment:
IMG_8059.JPG


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 14:23 
Online


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/22/10
Posts: 960
Post Likes: +1375
Location: Milwaukee WI
Aircraft: Ex J35, Onex
Username Protected wrote:
I haven’t bought anything yet, but I’m 90% sure it will be a Rotax 912ULS. A big part of the reson I’m heading that way is that RANS has a vey complete firewall forward kit for the 912ULS. Supposedly with the 912 kit, when you run out of parts you add oil and gas then go flying. All the other engine options envolve custom engine mounts, modifying the cowling and a bunch of other work that I really don’t want to do.

I’m leaning towards getting a 912 with a big bore kit that takes the HP to 115. That would give the plane the same power to weight ratio as my Bonaza with the 550 when both are at gross: 12 ponds per HP. That seems like a good place to start. Aftermarket turbo kits are available and not too expensive. I might do that at a later date.

Frankly I’m sick to death of “airplane” engines. The Rotax sounds like it’s extremely reliable, cheap by GA standards, and parts cost make some kind of rational sense. Hell the whole engine only cost a little more than a top overhaul on a 550, and that’s brand new.

The plane should only weigh 750 pounds empty, 1500 ponds gross when it’s done, so 115 HP is actually quite a lot. Supposedly it will climb with a Carbon Cub or at least get pretty close.

I’ve been all over the web looking at engines and experimental stuff in general. I don’t know where to send you for Lycoming prices, but the Titan is getting good reviews. You should be able to find prices with just a little Googlefu.

As far as the Rotax, I’m either going to get it from RANS or one of the shops that specialize in big bore hopped up Rotax.

Jack


If you are going to buy a Rotax, this might save you a bit of money. If you sign up for the Rotax maintenance course at Leading Edge Air Foils in Wisconsin, they give you a discount for all things Rotax (including the engine) for two years after taking the course. The course costs $550. They gave me the discount prior to taking the course, and I bought the engine, radiator, oil cooler, air filters, etc at the discounted price, and I am taking the course in March. You might want to compare buying this way versus buying everything from RANs...

If you are travelling to take the course, the costs (hotels, food, etc) might eat up your savings from the Rotax discounts but then it would be more or less like getting the maintenance course for free.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2018, 15:48 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
George

Good info, I'll look into it.

Rotax just had a price increase that was fairly substantial, like $2500 for a new 912ULS. Heck, that's enough to cover the autopilot.

I've had a couple of conversations with Mississippi Light Aircraft. They have a 912ULS with a couple hundred hours on the lower end and new higher displacement cylinders on the top. Freshly overhauled, 115HP instead of 100 and bit cheaper than a brand new 912ULS. If I had to make a decision today, that's probably what I'd do.

I'd expect an extra 15 horsepower on a light plane like the S7 would make a big difference in climb.

Jack


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2018, 22:12 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 02/13/11
Posts: 309
Post Likes: +92
Location: Austn, TX (KEDC)
Username Protected wrote:
Wings and control surfaces primed and ready for Oratex. Shippment is coming from Germany and should be here Friday.

Can't wait to hear about your experience with Oratex. From what I gather, it's not as stretchy, so people who're used to normal fabrics even manage to bend structural members while covering.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2018, 02:05 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
It's going to be interesting figuring out the Oratex process. They tell me that it's a good thing that I've never covered a plane before, the process is enough different that previous experience is a hindrance.

I bought a couple of their sample kits, welded up a little metal frame and covered it. It was very easy.

As far as bending up the wing while covering, I don't think that would be easy. The Oratex actually shrinks less than Dacron. You have to have it more wrinkle-free before you start shrinking or you might not be able to get all the wrinkles out. But it does get very tight.

I'll report back when I have a more informed opinion. I'm excited to start covering the wings, should be a lot of fun.

Jack


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 10:53 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
It's been awhile since I updated this thread, but progress has continued. The pace has slowed a little as I've been pulled off the project by other demands, but the covering process is underway.

The Flaps and Ailerons are covered in Oratex.

Attachment:
IMG_2527.jpg


Attachment:
IMG_2519.jpg


The top half of the left wing is covered.

Attachment:
IMG_5212.JPG


Attachment:
IMG_9071.JPG


So far I'm very pleased with the way it's working out. The control surfaces look great and so does the wing. The only real problem area I've had is around the wingtip. I've got some puckers in there that I just couldn't get out. On the RANS that area will be under a fiberglass wingtip so It won't really matter, but of course, it bugs me.

I have to say that I'm enjoying working with the Oratex product. The glue and the fabric are sort of "miracle" materials. When the glue is dry it doesn't really even seem like glue, not at all sticky. But, when you apply the heat is sticks like crazy and is very strong. Once you get the feel for the material you can adjust the temp of the heat gun and finesse things. 200 F the glue sticks but the material doesn't shrink at all. 400 F and the material shrinks quite a lot.

It is very time-consuming. I started working on top of the left wing at 9:30 AM and knocked off about 10:30 PM with no real breaks and it's not quite finished. And that was after spending 4 or 5 hours applying the glue. I'll probably have 75 -80 hours in each wing before I'm done. But then again, I don't have to paint it.

Jack


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 23 Apr 2018, 11:06 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12364
Post Likes: +11354
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
Oratex looks very promising. Are there long term data on how it stands up to UV? I ask because the lighter colors I've seen looked pretty translucent.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2018, 16:54 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 805
Post Likes: +561
Company: Retired
Location: Farmersville, TX
Aircraft: 2007 RANS S-6ES
They did some tests in Alaska, leaving panels staked out in the sun, wind, snow, etc. for quite a while. No perceivable fading on any of the colors that I saw. And over in Germany, they've got airplanes that were covered 10+ years ago, and still look great.

I know several Bearhawk builders who used Oratex, and are very happy with it. One of the kit company's demo planes is covered in Oratex (red) and it looks pretty sharp. In the lighter colors, it can be a bit translucent with direct sunlight behind it. But to me, that looks pretty cool. (Different strokes for different folks.)

FWIW, the darker colors (red, blue, and olive drab) show through less than the lighter ones (white, natural white, antique, yellow, and silver), but all of them have some degree of translucence to them...

Edited to add: I'm definitely planning to use Oratex on my Bearhawk Patrol, and am hoping and praying that their STC is extended to include the Champion 7-series aircraft by the time mine needs recovering... Costs more for the fabric, but weight is lower, and you don't have to paint with all those nasty toxic materials. (And since I'm "paint challenged" anyway...)

_________________
Jim Parker
2007 Rans S-6ES


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2018, 11:06 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
Stuart

I agree with everything James has said about the UV resistance and longevity of Oratex. It sounds like they have done a bunch of testing and the results are excellent. Randy at RANS told me that they made a windsock out of it and that it's been in use at their grass strip for many years and still looks like new. The Oratex guys in Alsaka (Better Aircraft Fabric) tell stories about Oratex planes that live outside and have for years with no ill effects.

However the stuff just hasn't been around long enough to see examples of planes that have been covered for 30 years.

For me at age 56 I'm not that worried about it. My S7 will live in a hangar and I've probably only got 20 more years of flying left. I'm sure it will last that long and still look good. There is a chance that I will sell it, but my plan is to keep it long term. I'll porbably only sell it if I determine I need more power and UL; something like a Carbon Cub. Honestly though, I think think the S7 will fill the niche I have for a Bush Plane in my life just fine.

Here's another picture of the covered wing.

Jack

Attachment:
IMG_7092.JPG


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Rans S-7s Courier; Anyone have experience or opinions?
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2018, 17:21 
Offline



User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/01/13
Posts: 6268
Post Likes: +6942
Location: Overland Park, KS (KOJC)
Aircraft: 1975 Bonanza F33A
The left wing is done (nearly) and hanging up on the ceiling in my shop.

Attachment:
IMG_1836.JPG


I still have to rivet and tape the ribs then install the inspection plates and various farings. But this is a good place to stop. I'll finish up the last of it when the fuselage is done and the plane is nearly ready to fly.

I started covering the right wing, should have to top skin on by tomorrow afternoon.

Attachment:
IMG_2189.JPG


Attachment:
IMG_1630.JPG


With luck, I'll finish the right wing next week and start unpacking the fuselage next weekend.

The more I work with Oratex the more I like it. At this point, it seems easy and it's going fast. The left wing with the edges all taped looks fantastic.

Attachment:
IMG_3584.JPG


Next update should have pictures of the fuselage. Can't wait!

Jack


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 219 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 15  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.midwest2.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.SCA.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.