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13 Dec 2019, 11:45 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 13:40 
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Joined: 10/09/12
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Location: Tonica Il
Aircraft: 1980 58P
What can you tell me about both? I had the opportunity to ride in Epic. Not much to say but awe inspiring. Garmin 900, and power to give. Never been in a TBM. I have looked at them. Just looking add thoughts on both. Was going to talk call some guys also to pick their brains. Thanks guys for all your feedback.
Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 15:12 
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Aircraft: TBM
Certified vs. Not Certified. All the plusses and minuses that go with that distinction comes into play ($, flexibility to add new stuff, supportability, possible handling characteristics, able to use for revenue flights (part-135), etc.). Otherwise reasonably similar planes. Epic is a bit larger.

Username Protected wrote:
What can you tell me about both? I had the opportunity to ride in Epic. Not much to say but awe inspiring. Garmin 900, and power to give. Never been in a TBM. I have looked at them. Just looking add thoughts on both. Was going to talk call some guys also to pick their brains. Thanks guys for all your feedback.
Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 16:20 
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Joined: 08/14/13
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Aircraft: LancairES TAT-TN
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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 19:19 
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Certified v. Non Certified as has already been posted. It's a big deal.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 20:20 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Company: Bottom Line Experts
Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2013 SR22T G5
An experimental airplane like the Epic is worth nothing to me, personally. If I'm going to pay that much $, I want a certified bird that is FIKI and has gone through ALL the testing and rigors of certification.

That said, I do find the cabin of the Epic very appealing as well as the performance. I had a chance to see one recently at a shop that was working on my Cirrus. When I peeked inside the cabin, the smell of mildew hit me in the face. The mechanic said they have a known problem with moisture that collects somewhere in the bottom of the fuselage. It didn't sound like there was a good fix to entirely eliminate it. This (as well as the poor fit and finish all around) we're just other examples of the compromises made in going the experimental route.

If it were my decision, I would take whatever budget I had and buy the best used TBM I could afford.

_________________
Don Coburn
Corporate Expense Reduction Specialist
2013 SR22T G5


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 20:34 
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Jason,
Could you please elaborate on your comment.
Ryan


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 15 Aug 2017, 21:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
An experimental airplane like the Epic is worth nothing to me, personally. If I'm going to pay that much $, I want a certified bird that is FIKI and has gone through ALL the testing and rigors of certification.

That said, I do find the cabin of the Epic very appealing as well as the performance. I had a chance to see one recently at a shop that was working on my Cirrus. When I peeked inside the cabin, the smell of mildew hit me in the face. The mechanic said they have a known problem with moisture that collects somewhere in the bottom of the fuselage. It didn't sound like there was a good fix to entirely eliminate it. This (as well as the poor fit and finish all around) we're just other examples of the compromises made in going the experimental route.

If it were my decision, I would take whatever budget I had and buy the best used TBM I could afford.


I think the fit and finish of the new ones is truly exceptional. Mirror smooth paint and very small gaps with great seams. The interiors seemed better than most. Maybe this quality improvement is a natural progression of later serial numbers; similar to Cirrus. Let's all remember the early Cirri had Chevy Malibu quality and the new ones are very high end. All "homebuilts" have varying degrees of quality so I think that's the good and bad of experimental aviation. Caveat emptor.

I get this niche and think this is probably a wonderful airplane for the right person. I hope they get it certified and sell lots of them.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 06:53 
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Joined: 05/23/08
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185
TBM you can buy new now, EPIC is dreamware for now.

Its easy to travel internationally with a TBM, not so much with an homebuilt.

Lets talk back in 10 years when EPIC get close to certification.

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Former Baron 58 owner.
Pistons engines are for tractors.

Marc Bourdon


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 16 Aug 2017, 06:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
Lets talk back in 10 years when EPIC get close to certification.

It's borderline pointless now for them to pursue certification now much less in 10 years. Too much competition in the space now. Epic would be a $4MM plane if it were certified.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 07:56 
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Typing this from Cozumel where I arrived in an Epic LT. The plane and my brother flew around the world last year. Some countries do have a problem with experimental. I'm guessing the E1000 certified may be out around the first of the year. Carbon fiber ac are required to go through very different testing parameters tha AL. I understand they are now 3.25 million each. I've seen test articles 1 and two. Epic has a well funded and incredible operation in Bend where they now have the Columbia/Cessna plant as well as the original Epic facility. I believe it is a very efficient AC.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 08:58 
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Username Protected wrote:
Lets talk back in 10 years when EPIC get close to certification.

It's borderline pointless now for them to pursue certification now much less in 10 years. Too much competition in the space now. Epic would be a $4MM plane if it were certified.


PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.

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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.

I can see Jason't point, history shows that civilian aviation is a small market and any segment will eventually consolidate until it is dominated by 2 or 3 players.
Boeing and Airbus.
Bombardier and Embraer
Thrush and Air Tractor
Textron and Cirrus
Vans and ... (ok that's a bad example)


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:20 
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Mike Ciholas isn't around to make bets with Jason, so I'll bet lunch that EPIC doesn't deliver 5 certified E1000's before 18 months from today (that's giving them an extra year). I'd love to see it, but skeptical it will happen at all, much less within 6 months.

Username Protected wrote:
Typing this from Cozumel where I arrived in an Epic LT. The plane and my brother flew around the world last year. Some countries do have a problem with experimental. I'm guessing the E1000 certified may be out around the first of the year. Carbon fiber ac are required to go through very different testing parameters tha AL. I understand they are now 3.25 million each. I've seen test articles 1 and two. Epic has a well funded and incredible operation in Bend where they now have the Columbia/Cessna plant as well as the original Epic facility. I believe it is a very efficient AC.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:22 
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Denali is well along in their process... that makes 4 significant manufacturers of 6-9 seat SETPs.

Username Protected wrote:
PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.


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 Post subject: Re: TBM VS Epic LT
PostPosted: 17 Aug 2017, 10:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
\
PC-12, TBM, Piper... who else is there? I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that the market is too crowded when there are only 3 new SETP options, and 2 on the way.

PC12
Denali
TBM
Piper
SF50
HondaJet
M2
Not to mention the used market.

A $4MM Epic would be at the bottom of my list.


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