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 Post subject: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 08:44 
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I have a WTB ad here for a Supercub, which illustrates that I'm serious about buying one. No one has responded to the ad here or its twin that I posted on Supercub.org, which says something about the state of the Supercub market. Not sure what, but something.

Flying Supercubs can be had for as low as $50k. Special ones might fetch $150k or more. Here are my jumbled thoughts, presented in the hope that BT will have some advice on how to solidify my thinking. FWIW, I'm 55 and healthy, 5'10", 185#, and I don't like cats.

There are a couple of ways to think about this:
1) Buy ratty, fly a couple of years, and sell ratty.

2) Buy ratty, fix up, fly until I'm too inflexible to enter a Cub.

3) Buy nice, figure I can sell nice whenever the need arises.

4) Buy nice, make it nicer, win an Oshkosh award!

Max Grogan (RIP) always said you should buy at the top of your desired market. That way, you'll have something worth buying when you need to sell.

#1 is the thing to do if a) I think this bug will wear off or b) I think I might get seriously into taildragging, etc. Then I could sell the Cub and the Bo to buy a 180.

I THINK what I want is to buy something I can keep for 10 years without buying fabric or an engine. Looks like that can be done for somewhat less than 100 if the airplane can be found. What happens, though, is people pull the airplane apart to cover it and start doing "while you're in there" stuff and the next thing you know, they're looking at a Supercub with autopilot, G500, and ADS-B. Yet, interestingly, they don't do the rear spar mod that gives a 250# GW increase.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 08:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
.... and I don't like cats.

I think there's an official FAA prohibition policy that forbids you from owning any tail-draggers if your statement concerning cats is actually true. :bat:

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:10 
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Joined: 12/22/09
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Location: Bend, OR
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Username Protected wrote:

There are a couple of ways to think about this:
1) Buy ratty, fly a couple of years, and sell ratty.

2) Buy ratty, fix up, fly until I'm too inflexible to enter a Cub.

3) Buy nice, figure I can sell nice whenever the need arises.

4) Buy nice, make it nicer, win an Oshkosh award!



Hi Stuart,

I will follow your journey with interest. I'm not quite there yet, but I will be where you are in about 3 to 4 years.

I owned a Maule M-5 about 10 years ago when I lived in Idaho. I loved that plane. 235hp on an absolutely bulletproof O-540. Tons of power. Basic IFR, to shoot an approach if I needed to do so, and to keep my skills current. P&I that rated about an "8". And more-or-less in the "sweet spot" of what you're trying to buy. A very nice plane, but not a creampuff. Bought it for $65k in 2004.

I simply don't see many ads for that type of "Option 2.8" in your list above. They're either low end VFR planes, or extremely expensive G500 types that I don't need.

A few thoughts, that may be completely off base....

1. It's the wrong time of year to be shopping for planes, especially taildraggers. If they are solid steeds loved by their owners (which is the kind I want), they are being flown.

2. The market seems to be bifurcating into Cadillacs and old Pintos. Or at least, the seller thinks he has a Cadillac and prices it accordingly. That doesn't seem to be just for taildraggers, either. I don't see a lot of "mid market" stuff out there. At least, right now.

3. I like the Cessna 180 option. That has the advantage of being able to carry 2 or 3 people occasionally, travel at a decent speed, and haul a ton. I can't think of a single strip I've ever landed in my life in my own Maule that couldn't take a 180. I know they are out there. But I've never been in them. Problem is, the 180 market seems to be like the description above.

4. Here's something my wife (of all people) suggested....what's wrong with the old V-tail? Hmmmmm. I took that plane into every grass and backcountry strip I flew my Maule into....except for 3 unimproved strips that I didn't visit all that often to begin with.

That got me thinking. If and when I dump the 58P, maybe I'll just go back to the good old IO-550 powered Bonanza.

Please keep us updated on how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:17 
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Username Protected wrote:

1. It's the wrong time of year to be shopping for planes, especially taildraggers. If they are solid steeds loved by their owners (which is the kind I want), they are being flown.


What time of the year is best to shop for taildraggers? Winter/fall?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:20 
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Username Protected wrote:

1. It's the wrong time of year to be shopping for planes, especially taildraggers. If they are solid steeds loved by their owners (which is the kind I want), they are being flown.


What time of the year is best to shop for taildraggers? Winter/fall?


No idea.

Like I said, it was just a wild unsupported opinion. I know I wouldn't be interested in selling my plane when I was actively flying it a lot, and enjoying it. But that doesn't really mean much.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:21 
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Whenever I see a nice fixed up taildragger or a 10 year old Husky / Cubcrafters... there's usually some info to see hours flown since restoration or new. Sadly, it's so often about 200 hours over 10 years.

Makes me wonder about the course of disease with the taildragger bug. Is it 100 hours the first year, then 40, 20, and then almost nothing after year 3?

I dunno, but I would be suspicious of my own motivation if I got the bug. At least here in Memphis there's a Citabria that you can rent :D


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:23 
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i like option #3, i've had 2 supercubs during my recreational flying career and after about 5 years i get bored with them and sell, however i never get bored with the bonanza.
gary

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:33 
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Stu, I get it. I really do.

About 8 years or so ago I got really hot on buying a Super Cub. I could never find a decent one at anything approaching what I considered a decent price. I bought a 91 Husky for less....a lot less...

I flew the Husky for about 6 years, had a great time with it. Let my son finish his private pilot license, fly it some, taught a couple people to fly in it. Finally decided I *really* wanted a super cub.


sold the husky.

Still couldn’t find a decent Super Cub....really, at any price. Bought a really nice 185 for less than some of the Super Cubs I could find. Nice IFR panel, excellent shape. I’ve flown it about 250 hours over the past year. Just love it. Great, capable airplane. Not fabric, so if it has to remain outside for a day or two I don’t worry as much as I do with a fabric plane. Can carry 4 people, decent speed cross country, and I’ve put it everywhere I would put a Super Cub.


Darn it, I still want a Super Cub.



stan

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Makes me wonder about the course of disease with the taildragger bug. Is it 100 hours the first year, then 40, 20, and then almost nothing after year 3?

Very likely. I know that's often the case for aerobatics, ballroom dancing, and tae kwon do.

Here's what a 180 doesn't have: centerline seating, stick in the right hand, throttle in the left. It sounds silly, but it greatly adds to the enjoyment of the thing. "Buy the toy you want to play with."

I do like dogs and horses. But I stand by my opinion of cats.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
Whenever I see a nice fixed up taildragger or a 10 year old Husky / Cubcrafters... there's usually some info to see hours flown since restoration or new. Sadly, it's so often about 200 hours over 10 years.

Makes me wonder about the course of disease with the taildragger bug. Is it 100 hours the first year, then 40, 20, and then almost nothing after year 3?

I dunno, but I would be suspicious of my own motivation if I got the bug. At least here in Memphis there's a Citabria that you can rent :D

Like a lot of things, managing expectations is important. Wind and weather and available free time have to come together to make fun taildragging work. If any of those variables go crosswise or are in short supply you have an expensive boat anchor, or it feels like work. I've promised myself to try to fly the Stearman to lunch or breakfast every weekend the weather's good (which are many here in Dallas, thankfully) and go to a nearby fly-in or two per year. If that stops being fun or attainable - the Stearman goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 09:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
Makes me wonder about the course of disease with the taildragger bug. Is it 100 hours the first year, then 40, 20, and then almost nothing after year 3?

Very likely. I know that's often the case for aerobatics, ballroom dancing, and tae kwon do.

Here's what a 180 doesn't have: centerline seating, stick in the right hand, throttle in the left. It sounds silly, but it greatly adds to the enjoyment of the thing. "Buy the toy you want to play with."

I do like dogs and horses. But I stand by my opinion of cats.

Buying these planes in the summer - you gotta be patient. Probably more of a market in Sept or Oct when folks know it is over, and don't want to pay hangar rent until next Spring.

Good is finding a nice one on Trade-a-Plane that will work.
Better is hearing from a trusted source about one that is nice and nearby.
Best is knowing exactly the one you want and laying in the weed until the uncooperative SOB finally decides to sell it to you.

My Waco fell in my lap - Fred sold me something I didn't know I wanted.
My Stearman took about four months of looking, calling, consulting experts etc until I found the one that ticked all the boxes.

Now if I could just get my hands on that certain Super Cub. :cross:

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 10:11 
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When I get home from Alaska I'll post a picture of the SC that won the STOL competition at Valdez this year. 59' landing, 80' takeoff. Basically a stock aircraft. I spent yesterday with it's owner inspecting a turbine Otter. It won't add anything to your knowledge, but it will make you want one even more. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 10:12 
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I don't get the fascination with hours on the tach. Owning a toy and getting value from it doesn't have to be connected to how often you use it. I probably put 3 hours on our champ last year. Doesn't mean i don't enjoy having it around. But then it doesn'r coist me anything to store it at the farm, either.

maybe as a middle ground, if hangar cost is a factor, get something with folding wings. The highlander is a heck of a machine and the kitfox 7 isn't too shabby either.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 10:45 
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I think a lot of this boils down to the mission for the taildragger combined with buying the plane you want.

Stan alluded to it a bit.

I've flown a few Supercubs and I want one but the variants don't do it for me. There is something about the history, look, control feel, performance and STC availability of a basic real Supercub that blows my skirt up.

Nobody should ever fault a man for buying what he's always wanted. I certainly wouldn't. I don't care if you fly it with 31 inch tundra tires that never touch dirt, more power to you.

But, if mission factors more into the equation, there is some thinking to do.

If tailwheel practice is the goal, one can certainly find less expensive options. I had a perfect 140. Got my practice time in, realized I couldn't do much else with it, got bored and sold it. if you are worried about possibly getting bored with it, I'd obviously not touch anything but a turn key, easy to resell specimen.

Some other ramblings on "mission"

If flying into fairly improved stuff like roads, grass strips or pastures, the 180 class is great. Nice plane. Gets you there more quickly than cubs. This is significant when you want to go play but the playground is more than a 100 miles away. You'll think twice about repeated 4 hour flights in cubs to go anywhere other than the pattern. The prospect of a long flight tends to tamp enthusiasm. Cub speeds make long flights out of relatively short distances.

If landing on improved backcountry strips, like almost all of our famous strips here in Idaho, all the taildraggers work well but are not necessary. 182s, 206s and properly flown bonanzas work fine. Weight is everything here.

The big difference is that Supercubs will allow you to land in rougher unimproved landing areas than anything, including the 180 class. The 180 guys will come on and say that they can too. They can but they will be nervous about doing it time after time while the Supercubs guys do it as a normal course of their day. It's a matter of degree. Supercubs land slower, shorter and on nastier crap with decidedly less nervous time about doing so.

I don't need one for my mission at all. The 182 fits my mission best. (Room for dog and dead elk, performance, simplicity, cost, Andrea can use).

But I still want a Supercub. There is a reason they are so expensive for what you get. Everyone wants one. Demand is high.

Sometimes, Mission ain't everything.


Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Me Think Through This Supercub Thing
PostPosted: 10 Aug 2017, 11:21 
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decent Champ available down here for about 25k. Just saying.

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