banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 19:50 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2017, 12:53 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3343
Post Likes: +1948
Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Username Protected wrote:
Maybe that single engine jet thing isn't such a hot idea after all.


If that's the case then you could say that single engine piston isn't such a hot idea. Engines quit at times. It happens.


Or single engine turbines for that matter.

I have to admit - the single engine jet doesn't entirely make a lot of sense to me. Not so much because of the "engine could quit" thing, but the idea of a jet is to go fast. If it has a single engine, then it has to have a stall speed of 61kts or less. It is really hard to make a thing that flies high and goes fast, carries a good load, keeps the cabin pressurized yet stalls under 61kts.

That doesn't keep me out of singles, but that does change my risk assessments and decision making vs. when I owned a twin.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2017, 13:47 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14529
Post Likes: +22859
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
Username Protected wrote:
If that's the case then you could say that single engine piston isn't such a hot idea. Engines quit at times. It happens.

To take that a step further, it's expected to happen, to the point that engine failures are not a mandatory reporting incident to the FAA like a fire or a control system malfunction. Engine failures are not atypical events.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 17:19 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 07/15/12
Posts: 230
Post Likes: +77
Location: Texas
Aircraft: G1000 182
Clint, any word on what happened yet?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2017, 17:36 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3435
Post Likes: +2388
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
I've been waiting on Pratt. They're scheduled to start on it next week.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2017, 00:05 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23613
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
This immediately made me think of the SF50 :bugeye:

Only 50% as likely though.

I'll happily perform TWO single engine landings in a Mustang for every ONE engine out situation in an SF50.

Engine failure in a Mustang is a maintenance event.

Engine failure in an SF50 is an insurance event.

Mike C.
_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2017, 15:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3435
Post Likes: +2388
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
Username Protected wrote:
Engine failure in a Mustang is a maintenance event.

Engine failure in an SF50 is an insurance event.

Mike C.

That's a good way to look at it. We'll put.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2017, 19:57 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 11885
Post Likes: +2848
Company: Looking
Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
Aircraft: None
Username Protected wrote:
I'll happily perform TWO single engine landings in a Mustang for every ONE engine out situation in an SF50.

Engine failure in a Mustang is a maintenance event.

Engine failure in an SF50 is an insurance event.

Mike C.


The assumption is that you are fine in both cases. Since this is true, which one hits the wallet?

Tim


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 01:08 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23613
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
The assumption is that you are fine in both cases.

Odds are far better for the Mustang to have no injuries.

Cirrus didn't even want to try the chute on the SF50 themselves, preferring to let some future customer be the first to experience it. It will be VERY interesting to see what happens.

Or you can take the chance on a dead stick landing in the SF50.

Quote:
Since this is true, which one hits the wallet?

Purely economically, the SF50 totaled in a chute deploy or botched dead stick costs you more. You won't get a replacement airplane for the agreed hull value minus deductible minus sales tax, and other acquisition costs. You also won't get the replacement airplane for years. You also potentially caused damage to property on the ground, further adding to the costs.

Meanwhile, the Mustang is flying again in days on a rental engine and the engine program takes care of the engine repair.

If I told you that your next flight will have an engine failure and gave you the choice of the SF50 or the Mustang, you'd be an idiot to take the SF50.

Suppose the engine failure happened not at FL330, but at 300 AGL? How "expensive" is that?

Turbine engines are reliable, they are not infallible.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 09:23 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/05/11
Posts: 5303
Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
:deadhorse:

_________________
“ Embrace the Suck”


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 10:22 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/04/10
Posts: 3539
Post Likes: +3198
Aircraft: C55, PC-12
I did a number of pressurization leak checks in the KA a few months ago (diagnosing a temp split). I double checked the O2 mask and set it on my lap before I started and then shutoff each bleed valve then both of them and recorded the numbers. The cabin got close to 10,000' but I didn't let it go over. It is uncomfortable when the cabin is climbing at 4500 FPM, your ears hurt and sometimes your eyes bubble but when you are completely ready for it, it is no big deal.

The Cirrus jet operates at the same altitudes as my KA and I've got to think that this is one of the reasons it doesn't go any higher. Losing an engine at cruise doesn't seem like a big deal but losing pressurization at FL400 (I'm projecting, I've never done it) is a very big deal - combine that with all-of-a-sudden being a glider and you've got a lot to deal with.

Jets don't really start to pay off until they get up high, I'm not sure a single engine jet makes a ton of sense flying the the 20's.

_________________
John Lockhart
Phoenix, AZ
Ridgway, CO


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 18 Sep 2017, 13:37 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 07/02/14
Posts: 1978
Post Likes: +1993
Location: Lakeville, Minnesota (KLVN)
Aircraft: J35
Username Protected wrote:

Engine failure in a Mustang is a maintenance event.

Engine failure in an SF50 is an insurance event.

Mike C.


But in a Mustang you have double the chance of an engine failure
:duck: :hide: :duck: :duck:

_________________
N340Q
J35

ASEL&MEL ASES CFII MEI BPPP Instructor


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2017, 18:00 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3435
Post Likes: +2388
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
...And at least a 100X chance of a better outcome.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 07 Oct 2017, 12:38 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 10/13/15
Posts: 35
Post Likes: +24
Aircraft: PA46-500TP
Curious what caused the failure? Are you able to provide an update?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 07 Oct 2017, 13:39 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/01/10
Posts: 3435
Post Likes: +2388
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
I haven't received a written report yet, but I received verbal word from Pratt that it was a failure of the #3 bearing.

_________________
Previous A36TN owner


Top

 Post subject: Re: Engine Failure at FL330
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2017, 10:33 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 10/08/11
Posts: 4829
Post Likes: +4109
Location: Naples, FL
Aircraft: Baron E55
Username Protected wrote:
I haven't received a written report yet, but I received verbal word from Pratt that it was a failure of the #3 bearing.


So Clint, what happens now? Do they rebuild your engine, give it back to you, and remount it? Do you continue to run their engine? And do they reimburse you for costs you’ve incurred?

I’m fascinated what happens directly from manufacturers on new jet engines, what service they provide




Warren

_________________
E55, Aspen PFD, L3 Lynx NGT-9000 MFD/XPDR, ADS-B, KLN90B, Strikefinder, iPads/ForeFlight/Stratus2


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 10  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.CiESVer2.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.concorde.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.