28 Mar 2024, 05:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 10:35 |
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Joined: 02/05/14 Posts: 1293 Post Likes: +937 Company: Aromech Inc Location: West Michigan
Aircraft: V35B, ERCO-415
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My wife has started her sport Pilot Training this summer with an instructor and access to a Sky Arrow (before you ask no she will not qualify for 3rd class med so it is the LSA route) But then the instructor had a medical issue and cannot teach. While waiting for another instructor to get checked out in the Sky Arrow so he can continue instructing her the flight operation sold the Sky Arrow ( the day after I got checked out in it ) Currently she will complete her dual in a Grumman Cheetah but will not be able to Solo or complete her check ride and we have no other access to a LSA. This means we will be purchasing something to completer training in and build hours, somewhat of a starter plane I guess. We want to find something easy to fly, benign stall characteristics, reliable and nicer looking than a bread box with wings and be fun for me to fly also. Some of the specific criteria has been decided: Side by side configuration Can be S-LSA or E-LSA Either traditional aircraft engine or Rotax912 High wing preferable, but low wing will work Tri gear preferable (but wife thinks tail wheel looks classic and cool) Electric start a must (no hand prop) Budget is $15k to $35k Looking at some old Taylor Crafts, Aeronca Chief's, and Luscombe 8"s that can be had in nice shape for low to mid 20k range (keep trying to get her to like the ercoupe too ) We also get lulled into a few of the composite mid 2000's LSA that can be had if we push the budget a little. So what do you all know about easy to fly, affordable LSA planes that you would let your loved one learn to fly.
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 10:40 |
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Joined: 10/12/10 Posts: 1071 Post Likes: +550 Location: 5TX0 (North Texas)
Aircraft: F33A,Tecnam P2008
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As I was reading your post, I was about to make some recommendations... and then I saw your budget.
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 10:45 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14524 Post Likes: +22857 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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side-side limits it some
I'll draw some ire and say that the chief and the luscomb are too squirrely. Many people race to quote this and point out thast a gaziliion pilots trained in them back in the day. that's true. it's also true that they wrecked a lot of them. You want this to be something enjoyable for your wife.
As far as tailwheels I'd go with a champ but if it has to be side-side then maybe a cessna 120 ?
Nosewheel and easy to fly, an ercoupe. I had an ercoupe in college and a friend of mine who had never flown before, solo'd in 1 day and 3 hours of instruction. But if you do get an ercoupe don't get one with rudder pedals, that ruins the plane and is still no good for training to fly a non-ercoupe.
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 10:49 |
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Joined: 11/20/14 Posts: 6451 Post Likes: +4520
Aircraft: V35
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You already named many of the classic airframes (60+ years old) that met the LSA requirement. You want an airplane somebody else invested a lot of time and love into, and then it's ready for you to buy and fly.
Consider also the early S-LSA's and especially E-LSA's that are on the used market. I see a lot of higher asking prices, but my gut suspicion is that there are 10-year old modern LSA's that can be had for your price... if you are willing to get a few doors slammed in your face along the way.
Maybe an E-LSA Zenith?
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 10:50 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14524 Post Likes: +22857 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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also, newish airplanes cheap, sonex's have quite a following although the carb on the aerovee engine makes me a little nervous
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 11:18 |
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Joined: 02/05/14 Posts: 1293 Post Likes: +937 Company: Aromech Inc Location: West Michigan
Aircraft: V35B, ERCO-415
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Username Protected wrote: As I was reading your post, I was about to make some recommendations... and then I saw your budget. Yeah, I know I am cheap but I dont want to take out a loan and cash is pretty tight so we are taking out my funds for my ADSB and radio upgrade. I know it CAN be done on a tight budget, just want to exhaust all avenues.
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 11:22 |
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Joined: 02/05/14 Posts: 1293 Post Likes: +937 Company: Aromech Inc Location: West Michigan
Aircraft: V35B, ERCO-415
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Username Protected wrote: side-side limits it some
I'll draw some ire and say that the chief and the luscomb are too squirrely. Many people race to quote this and point out thast a gaziliion pilots trained in them back in the day. that's true. it's also true that they wrecked a lot of them. You want this to be something enjoyable for your wife.
As far as tailwheels I'd go with a champ but if it has to be side-side then maybe a cessna 120 ?
Nosewheel and easy to fly, an ercoupe. I had an ercoupe in college and a friend of mine who had never flown before, solo'd in 1 day and 3 hours of instruction. But if you do get an ercoupe don't get one with rudder pedals, that ruins the plane and is still no good for training to fly a non-ercoupe. I have heard that about the Luscombs, and assume Taylorcraft fits into the same mold. She was pushing to build a Kitfox that we start Tricycle and graduate to tailwheel, but time and $$ is the limiting factor, but not off the table. The Avid Flyer might be an option in the ELSA market. Just curious why the rudder pedals ruin the Ercoupe?
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 11:27 |
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Joined: 02/05/14 Posts: 1293 Post Likes: +937 Company: Aromech Inc Location: West Michigan
Aircraft: V35B, ERCO-415
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Username Protected wrote: You already named many of the classic airframes (60+ years old) that met the LSA requirement. You want an airplane somebody else invested a lot of time and love into, and then it's ready for you to buy and fly.
Consider also the early S-LSA's and especially E-LSA's that are on the used market. I see a lot of higher asking prices, but my gut suspicion is that there are 10-year old modern LSA's that can be had for your price... if you are willing to get a few doors slammed in your face along the way.
Maybe an E-LSA Zenith? You are correct on the older E-LSA in the price range. Seems she was hooked on this one last night, I just dont know about some of the manufactures (defunct) and flight characteristics of a plane with a very limited number flying. http://www.skywagons.com/airplanes-fors ... lle-n979cdSure is going to be a interesting year at oshkosh.
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 11:44 |
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Joined: 10/12/10 Posts: 1071 Post Likes: +550 Location: 5TX0 (North Texas)
Aircraft: F33A,Tecnam P2008
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I'm excited for you. First because your wife is becoming a pilot and secondly because it's always exciting to go plane shopping. This will be fun. FWIW here's my advice. I strongly suggest making your search a team effort. (My wife is a pilot so trust me on that.) I know you want it to be something she feels comfortable in and competent flying. If you look at some of the older LSA's, you may find the manufacturer is no longer in business which may or may not be important to you. I looked at quite a few E-LSA and S-LSA a couple of years ago and many did not impress me. In fact a few reminded me of a powered hang-glider. And don't forget, insurance on tailwheel aircraft tends to be quite a bit more unless the insured pilot has a lot of TW time. Good luck in your search. Keep us informed on your wife's progress and the plane search. Glenn
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Post subject: Re: What LSA should my wife get Posted: 18 Jul 2017, 12:03 |
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Joined: 11/03/08 Posts: 14524 Post Likes: +22857 Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
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as far as ercoupe rudder pedals, there are 3 issues with it
1. The rudders ave small and ineffective so you'll find yourself landing in a crab anyway
2. The crab landing works so well you'll not want to do anything else even if it was possible
3. most critically, it's still not a conventional control setup. The nosewheel steering remains on the control wheel and the pedals control only the rudders. IMO it's a dangerous combination for transitioning pilots. People schooled in conventional planes will get confused about what the wheel does, and anyone learning from scratch in the coupe is learning a bizarre combination of controls that are nothing like anything else. Better to leave it as-intended with no pedals - it works great and is not confusing.
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