28 Mar 2024, 06:53 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 14:27 |
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Joined: 10/05/09 Posts: 1165 Post Likes: +421 Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
Aircraft: Phenom 300
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Anyone out there with experience with aerobatic aircraft; what are your thoughts on an Extra 3xx that was used for 6 years and 600 hours of IAC unlimited competition? The Extra's were designed for that purpose, +/-10g.
Fatigue issues? Engine/Prop maintenance issues?
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 14:44 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
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would not see a lot of issues with the airframe, that could not be fixed relatively easily…
but it will for 99.9% need an engine overhaul…one on the expensive side with a new crankshaft I mean…prop depends…which one…?
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 14:48 |
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Joined: 10/05/09 Posts: 1165 Post Likes: +421 Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
Aircraft: Phenom 300
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Factory Standard: AEIO-580-B1A with MTV 9-B-C/C198-25 3-Blade Composite Prop
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 14:54 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
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well the MTVs are relatively cheap to overhaul…
good workover the airframe…overhaul on the engine…overhaul on the prop to make sure…and you may be good to go for another gut wrenching +/- 10 G 600 hours…
600 hours is about what these components last in between overhauls if you ride them hard…
that's why a lot of them get sold with exactly that number of hours….
firewall forward probably 70% of the USD value of the plane….count on 100K to 150K USD for refurbishment of all…
well, that is what the last one of that (hourly) vintage that I knew had cost in Europe to set straight again..and the engine went to the US for overhaul….those aerobatic Lycs are very expensive…( but good..)
or in other words…firewall forward nearly is the total value of the plane...
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 22:22 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
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Username Protected wrote: just to verify for my knowledge a ridden hard and put away wet acro plane needs its motor overhauled every 600 hours? well at least the ones I know and knew needed it…we are talikng "unlimited" acro stuff…unhealthy negative Gs…lots of outside snaps and so on... not a liesurely roll or loop during some cross country flights at times…used like that an Extra's big Lyc will live forever...
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 22:33 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
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Username Protected wrote: I think that depends on the engine and how it was operated. High-compression engines, in particular, are like to need an overhaul after a few hundred hours. The stock AEIO-540 in our Pitts made it to 1,550 hours before overhaul. 6 years of unlimited would be hard on anything, though. Martin, yes you are right with the Pitts' 540…on one S-2B though we did have a crankshaft crack ( for the known S2B reasons..) just so happened also at around 600 hrs since overhaul too, the top end would have been fine, but it needed a new crankshaft, i.e. overhaul…but would agree that the stock 540 on a Pitts is very robust..
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 00:30 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
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Username Protected wrote: . I did lots of snapping, tumbling and never had a crank problem. yes, that "crankproblem" is more specific for Pitts S-2Bs in combination with the "D" motor and the 2-blade metal props..that is why you have to inspect the flange on these birds every 10 hours if certain maneuvers are flown and usually can catch a crack in the crank before the prop comes off in flight.. The Extra's 540s or 580s do have a very different crankshaft configuration and in combination with the fact that they all have 3 or 4 blade composite props which seem not to be so hard on the crank do not have these problems that often…if at all..
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Post subject: Re: Used Competition Aerobatic Aircraft Posted: 17 Jul 2017, 02:13 |
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Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
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Username Protected wrote: maintenance issues? maybe one could say, at least that is the norm here in Europe… good rule of thumb in regards to ownership and maintenance costs on an "unlimited" bird if flown in "hard acro" mode.. double the fuel costs per hour, compared to a nonaerobatic 6 banger single, and triple the maintenance costs per hour compared again to a non acro bird.. so just hypothetically…let's assume a Bo 36 in the US if flown 100 hours a year, let's just say, costs 250 USD direct ops costs per hour…make that 700 + USD per hour on an Extra, if flown in acro mode.. anybody who may say it costs less, either is overly optimistic, or has a sponsor with an open pocket book and does not see the upkeep bills..'s as simple as that at the end of the day…(assuming naturally such an acro bird does receive the TLC necessary any serious pilot deems appropriate, if he wants to stay halfway safe and minimize the inherent risks associated with upside down flying…) other than that those Extras are nice and sturdy birds...
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