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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 14:05 
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I had a chance earlier this week to see and fly in a 100.

It is extremely impressive inside and out and does have that huge ramp appeal! The cabin is another level nicer than the Mustang by room and materials. You feel like you are in a much larger plane. We had a short hop and only got up to 33,000 and it was a pretty warm day +20 or so and I believe we saw 370 true. The pilot told me on a cooler day you will get to 390.

I was surprised though that once you hit 20k+ the climb really starts slowing down to around 1300fpm indicating around 200. I suspect this is not vastly different than the Mustang. Our initial climb had us around 2000fpm indicating 200.

Just like the Mustang I was really impressed with the simplicity of operating with FADEC and how you simply turn the knob to start an engine and watch.

Long story short. I made an offer on the bird I saw and believe we will be able to come to a middle ground on the numbers. As a reference point, there is another 100 for sale with about 700 hours more (2000TT) on programs and I believe they would sell for $1.7M. The delta in price between the Mustang and the Phenom was a lot smaller than I thought, helping make the decision easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 14:18 
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Best of luck Martin! This is exciting stuff! Before you sign the offer that will likely be the end of negotiation with you the winner, make sure you go thru the wet and contaminated section in the supplement. The Phenom 100 has really good brakes. It doesn't have ground flaps. The landing distances and accelerate/stop numbers on wet and contaminated runways with the Phenom is surprisingly long. Make sure you don't discover this after you accept the counteroffer.

:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 14:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
As a reference point, there is another 100 for sale with about 700 hours more (2000TT) on programs and I believe they would sell for $1.7M. The delta in price between the Mustang and the Phenom was a lot smaller than I thought, helping make the decision easier.

Yeah, that's a lot of plane for that price. No brainer.


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 14:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
Best of luck Martin! This is exciting stuff! Before you sign the offer that will likely be the end of negotiation with you the winner, make sure you go thru the wet and contaminated section in the supplement. The Phenom 100 has really good brakes. It doesn't have ground flaps. The landing distances and accelerate/stop numbers on wet and contaminated runways with the Phenom is surprisingly long. Make sure you don't discover this after you accept the counteroffer.

:thumbup:


Good call Brent. I am going to review that to make sure it's not a problem, but in general I don't anticipate it being too much of a factor for the strips I will plan on using. It sounds like the majority of the braking issues and running off the runway have been resolved.


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 15:22 
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Joined: 10/05/09
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Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
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Congratulations!

If you need any information, tips, or whatever send me a PM. I have over 600 hours in my Phenom and still love it. It is a time machine. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 15:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Congratulations!

If you need any information, tips, or whatever send me a PM. I have over 600 hours in my Phenom and still love it. It is a time machine. :thumbup:


Don't happen to have the contaminated runway info that Brent mentioned above do you?


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 15:56 
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Congratulations on the Phenom 100!

I have a question about Mustangs that one of the owners or Chip might be able to answer.

Why hasn't Duncan, Stevens, Elliott (etc.) developed an upgrade program for the Mustang to the G1000 NXI? I realize Textron probably won't do it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 18:43 
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Username Protected wrote:
Congratulations on the Phenom 100!

I have a question about Mustangs that one of the owners or Chip might be able to answer.

Why hasn't Duncan, Stevens, Elliott (etc.) developed an upgrade program for the Mustang to the G1000 NXI? I realize Textron probably won't do it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Thanks


Standby, let me see if I can get you a quick answer! I'll call Andy Wilson at Stevens, I bet he's in the loop!

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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 19:34 
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There will be a Garmin upgrade available for the Mustang at some point in the future... I can't tell you anymore than that... or I'd have to kill you. :bat:

P.S. I do think it's a no brainier... 479 airplanes.

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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 19:37 
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Thanks Chip. :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 20:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have a question about Mustangs that one of the owners or Chip might be able to answer.

Why hasn't Duncan, Stevens, Elliott (etc.) developed an upgrade program for the Mustang to the G1000 NXI? I realize Textron probably won't do it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Thanks

Keep in mind that the NXi is a fairly new product. Integration into the Mustang will likely happen at some point, but I think they'll complete the current ADS-B upgrades first.

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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 20:26 
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I agree, if you buy a jet get at least 8 seats.


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I've got to ask, why even bother with the mustang. Buy the M2. It is a lot more airplane. My hangar neighbor recently bought one and Cessna threw him a lot of incentives to buy. He got some great deals on covered maintenance for the next three years. When it comes to light jets, it's a buyers market out there, thus some keen negotiations can get you a great deal with a lot of bonus incentives.

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Pistons engines are for tractors.

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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2017, 21:39 
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Doesn't the 8th seatbelt trigger the cockpit voice recorder requirement?


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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2017, 15:32 
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Joined: 10/05/09
Posts: 1165
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Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
Aircraft: Phenom 300
Username Protected wrote:
I have a question about Mustangs that one of the owners or Chip might be able to answer.

Why hasn't Duncan, Stevens, Elliott (etc.) developed an upgrade program for the Mustang to the G1000 NXI? I realize Textron probably won't do it. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Thanks

Keep in mind that the NXi is a fairly new product. Integration into the Mustang will likely happen at some point, but I think they'll complete the current ADS-B upgrades first.


The NXI upgrade is in the pipeline for the Phenom 100 as well. Garmin gave a presentation at our last conference; though, I don't remember the target release date.

The ADS-B solution has been out for a few years. They recently lowered the price if you want the Embraer sanctioned solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Mustang or Phenom 100?
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2017, 15:57 
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Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
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Username Protected wrote:
Congratulations!

If you need any information, tips, or whatever send me a PM. I have over 600 hours in my Phenom and still love it. It is a time machine. :thumbup:


Don't happen to have the contaminated runway info that Brent mentioned above do you?


In general the book number for planning a "safe" wet landing distance is ~1.95x the dry runway numbers. I don't think the actual wet landing numbers are going to be much different for a Phenom 100 vs a Mustang at an equivalent landing weight. Its just physics.

Actual wet landing distance is more a function of runway material and condition which the "book" doesn't take into account. Wet un-grooved concrete runway is way worse then freshly grooved asphalt. My home airport is old grooved concrete, not the best surface; I routinely land in 3000-3500 feet on a wet runway and 2500-3000 when dry and that is without standing on the brakes. At airports with heavy commercial traffic you can plan on having zero braking action for the 1st 1000 feet until you clear all of the embedded rubber; fortunately, the runways are typically long.

When I bought the Phenom I was concerned about runway length. In reality, it hasn't been a problem.

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