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16 Nov 2018, 06:18 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 11:51 
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Joined: 08/21/13
Posts: 284
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Location: Charlotte NC (KEQY)
Aircraft: 1969 B55 (TC-1209)
Just shopping for Senecas (while also detouring to look at C/D/E 55 Barons) and I see this..

The listing looks nice.. Note "new paint"
https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... -seneca-ii

Quick google search turned this up..
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Piper-PA-34-220T-Seneca-III/1267676/L
:bugeye:
You can see the skin is wrinkled from the break all the way back to the tail. Must have been a fun repair job.. How would you even fix that sort of thing structurally?


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 12:01 
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Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 4502
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Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: 1959 BE95 Travel Air
Username Protected wrote:
You can see the skin is wrinkled from the break all the way back to the tail. Must have been a fun repair job.. How would you even fix that sort of thing structurally?

Don't know how exactly how you'd fix it but I can speculate how it might have happened...

http://youtu.be/rTw5pk6dcX0


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 12:04 
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Joined: 03/23/08
Posts: 3210
Post Likes: +802
Company: AirPower Insurance
Location: Phoenix, AZ (KDVT)
Aircraft: GC1B, Mu2, LrJet
Interesting.
You can see some of the repair records in Logbook #1.
Maybe its a different fuselage? Got me.

_________________
Tom "Tj" Johnson, Owner-Airpower Insurance, LLC
Tj@AirpowerInsurance.com
Cell:602-628-2701


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 12:19 
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Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 2899
Post Likes: +1092
Location: DTS/ATL/IAD
Aircraft: LancairES TAT-TN
in the image comments-

While landing it collided with a berm on July 22, 2007 at Battle Mountain Airport NV. Found this airplane sitting on a trailer along the road. (Nikon D70s)

so you are looking for a log book entry on that timeframe


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 12:20 
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Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 2698
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC
Aircraft: None currently
Edited...

It was reported that the posted link modified some browsers. Never had that happen, it's one of my go to sites.

_________________
Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/ Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


Last edited on 13 Jun 2017, 13:46, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 12:28 
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Posts: 2899
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Location: DTS/ATL/IAD
Aircraft: LancairES TAT-TN
Accident Occurred on: 2007-07-22 00:00:00
Narrative (ACCP): HISTORY OF FLIGHT On July 22, 2007, about 1645 Pacific daylight time, a Piper PA-34-220T, N275JM, collided with a berm after veering off the runway at Battle Mountain Airport, Battle Mountain, Nevada. The pilot was operating the airplane under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91. The private pilot and one passenger sustained minor injuries; the airplane sustained substantial damage. The cross-country business flight departed French Valley Airport, Murrieta/Temecula, California, about 1320, with a planned destination of Battle Mountain. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed, and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan had been filed. The pilot submitted a written report. He stated that he had just canceled an IFR flight plan and was in the traffic pattern for a landing on runway 30. He landed the airplane just beyond the runway threshold, touching down just below 90 knots. He reported touching down first on the main landing gear with the nose gear touching after he had allowed the ground speed to dissipate. Approximately 5-7 seconds into the landing roll the plane felt 'wobbly' and thereafter performed an uncommanded left turn. The pilot attempted to compensate with braking to bring the airplane to the right but was unsuccessful. The airplane continued to yaw left, departed the left side of the runway, and collided with a berm. The airplane continued over the berm and came to rest just beyond the rising wall of a ditch. The pilot reported that on a previous occasion the left brake had locked, causing the airplane to depart the runway and receive a flat tire. He reported that this had occurred at 3-4 knots. METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS The closest official weather observation station was Winnemucca Municipal Airport (WMC), Winnemucca, Nevada, which was 46 nautical miles west of the accident site. The elevation of the weather observation station was 4,308 feet msl. An aviation routine weather report (METAR) for WMC was issued at 1656. It stated: winds from 260 degrees at 8 knots; visibility 10 miles; skies clear; temperature 37 degrees Celsius; dew point -2 degrees Celsius; altimeter 3003 inches of mercury. WRECKAGE AND IMPACT INFORMATION Runway 30 is 7,300 feet long and 100 feet wide. Photographs of the runway surface show three unequally spaced skid marks, beginning approximately 1,600 feet from the runway threshold. The skid marks start midway between the runway centerline and left edge. The markings continue beyond the left runway edge and through gravel to the site of the main wreckage approximately 3,200 feet from the threshold. Recovery personnel took photographs of the wreckage after the accident. Both propellers were separated by a fracture in the crankshaft, aft of the propeller flange, and lay partially submerged in the rising ditch wall, forward of the engines. The main landing gear folded rearward at the wing mounting points with both wheels lying beneath the wing flaps. The nose gear folded rearward at its forward mounting point and lay beneath the forward cabin area. TEST AND RESEARCH The pilot reported the airplane weight at the time of the accident to be 4,177 pounds. According to the flight manual, under the reported weather conditions, with the airplane configured with 40 degrees of flaps, a touchdown speed of 61 knots, and with maximum braking, the landing roll distance would have been approximately 2,325 feet. Safety Board investigators inspected the wreckage at a repair facility. No discrepancies were noted in the nosewheel steering system or braking system. The main landing gear and nose gear tires exhibited flat spots and striations. Investigators inspected the nose gear of an exemplar Piper PA-34 airplane. Inspectors raised the nose gear and observed that it stayed centered throughout its travel and did not cant during the sequence until it was in the vicinity of the wheel well.
Narrative (ACCF): After landing just beyond the runway threshold, the airplane yawed left and departed the runway, colliding with a berm. The airplane continued over the berm and came to rest just beyond, on the rising wall of a ditch. Post accident investigation revealed no discrepancies in the nose wheel steering system or braking system. The airplane came to rest approximately 3,200 feet from the pilot's reported touchdown point. A typical ground roll under the reported conditions was calculated to be approximately 2,350 feet. The main landing gear and nose gear tires exhibited flat spots and striations. Investigators inspected the nose gear of an exemplar Piper PA-34 airplane as it cycled in a retraction and extension sequence. The nose gear stayed centered throughout its travel and did not cant during the sequence until it was in the vicinity of the wheel well.
Narrative (CAUSE): The pilot's failure to maintain directional control.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 12:32 
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Joined: 08/21/13
Posts: 284
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Location: Charlotte NC (KEQY)
Aircraft: 1969 B55 (TC-1209)
Conveniently, there is a gap between logbooks #2 and #3 which spans the accident time.. shady.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 13:16 
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Joined: 01/13/11
Posts: 1389
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Location: San Francisco, CA
Aircraft: C 150
WARNING WARNING SPAM LINK

THE POST BY JEFF HARTMAN HAS A LINK THATDOWNLOADS PROGRAMS THAT CHANGE YOUR BROWSER.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU CLICK THE PROGRAMS MODIFY YOUR BROWSER YOU GET A NEW TOOL BAR.

I WILL DELETE ALL VESTIGES OF MY BROWSER AND RE LOAD.

WHAT A BUMMER.

_________________
Tom Schiff
CA 35 San Rafael/Smith Ranch airport.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 13:16 
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Joined: 01/13/11
Posts: 1389
Post Likes: +644
Location: San Francisco, CA
Aircraft: C 150
WARNING WARNING SPAM LINK

THE POST BY JEFF HARTMAN HAS A LINK THATDOWNLOADS PROGRAMS THAT CHANGE YOUR BROWSER.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU CLICK THE PROGRAMS MODIFY YOUR BROWSER YOU GET A NEW TOOL BAR.

I WILL DELETE ALL VESTIGES OF MY BROWSER AND RE LOAD.

WHAT A BUMMER.

_________________
Tom Schiff
CA 35 San Rafael/Smith Ranch airport.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 13:20 
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Joined: 03/28/09
Posts: 77
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Location: Reno, NV
Aircraft: 1981 P210N
The plane starts out as N8434N (SN 34-8133221). The NTSB report of the incident lists the same SN, though the plane is now 275JM. The Controller ad lists the same SN as well. Well it's the same SN as the one in the incident, yet the logs do not indicate any repairs as a result of the incident. :liar:

So is Tom's Aircraft Sales, the current owner or both...umm what is the correct word to use here?

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My hovercraft is full of eels.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 13:47 
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Joined: 01/29/09
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC
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Thanks for the PM Tom,

Did any one else have a problem with the link?

I will run my Norton to be sure.

Jeff

_________________
Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/ Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 13:58 
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Joined: 02/25/13
Posts: 3106
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Location: Jacksonville, FL (KCRG)
Aircraft: 1994 Bonanza F33A
Username Protected wrote:
Just shopping for Senecas (while also detouring to look at C/D/E 55 Barons) and I see this..

The listing looks nice.. Note "new paint"
https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... -seneca-ii

Quick google search turned this up..
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Piper-PA-34-220T-Seneca-III/1267676/L
:bugeye:
You can see the skin is wrinkled from the break all the way back to the tail. Must have been a fun repair job.. How would you even fix that sort of thing structurally?



Looking at the logs it does not seem to be well documented.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 14:16 
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Joined: 02/27/08
Posts: 2340
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Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310p
From the ad:

Description

In maintaining our tradition of representing only the finest quality piston
and turboprop aircraft, Tom’s Aircraft proudly presents this 1981 Piper Seneca II Turbo. This time proven airplane has newer paint and interior, and updated avionics.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 14:27 
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Joined: 08/14/13
Posts: 2899
Post Likes: +1092
Location: DTS/ATL/IAD
Aircraft: LancairES TAT-TN
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for the PM Tom,

Did any one else have a problem with the link?

I will run my Norton to be sure.

Jeff


there is nothing on that page that would cause that, you likely have something wrong with your browser/system that is unrelated to that site

Get a Mac and you wont' have any of those issues :hide:


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 15:04 
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Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 2698
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Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC
Aircraft: None currently
Quote:
there is nothing on that page that would cause that, you likely have something wrong with your browser/system that is unrelated to that site

Get a Mac and you wont' have any of those issues :hide:


I can't find a problem with mine, maybe Tom picked up something elsewhere..
Get a Mac...Hah!, you sound like my son. :D

_________________
Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/ Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


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