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23 Oct 2019, 19:00 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 15:07 
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No issues with that site on my PC/Firefox.

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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 15:50 
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I see no issue with the links.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 16:26 
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Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory
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A friend of mine did something similar with his Seneca I. Hard landing with the nose gear going thru the top of the nose cone and part of the windshield. Initially looked like the plane should be scrapped. Looks worse than this plane. Actually, not as bad of a repair as it looks. The nose one is fiberglass and pretty easy to repair. The nose gear frame probably collapsed, parts not hard to find. The firewall is the most difficult component to repair, or at least get to. Piper has an engineering bulletin with a repair technique.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 19:02 
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Username Protected wrote:
Conveniently, there is a gap between logbooks #2 and #3 which spans the accident time.. shady.


Isn't that something. June 2007 to 2011. Wow, isn't that suspect? ;)

I know of a original II that could be had pretty cheap. Needs P&I, but has a HSI and 430w. It is going through annual now. PM me if interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 19:10 
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Tom's has a good reputation, I have used their sales, parts, and service arms and been well pleased with each. I wonder if their sales department has changed management recently, and left a few of its ethics on the ramp by mistake? Gosh I hope not.

I suspect letting Tom know what's going on might bring an interesting conversation. I'd like to believe they wouldn't represent an aircraft that had been knowingly run through the airworthiness washing machine. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 19:21 
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At least the engine log has "IRAN for prop strike" and then about a year later (2009) a full overhaul... so you would know something's up...

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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 20:40 
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I'd love to see the 337 for that repair! It's referenced in the 2008 Annual logbook entry but that's all. "Repaired this aircraft in accordance with FAA form 337..."

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 21:23 
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May not need a 337. I was looking through the logs on a C421 that was in pre buy. I noticed that it had two different paint schemes on the tip tanks....asked the salesman about 337s, he about blew up and told me it was repaired in an approved repair station and didn't need a 337. No mention of the snow bank that tore off the gear and outboard section of the right wing... :eek:

It flew Ok, and I flew it some on contract....

Jeff

IAs and A&Ps correct this if I got it wrong. (Please)

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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 13 Jun 2017, 23:22 
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Fortunately they kept the same tail number. Now imagine if they had changed the tail number? It would be a lot easier to fall for something like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2017, 01:20 
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I don't know if this is a possibility but after seeing the pictures I thought that would be a massive amount of work to fix. Being as it has the appearance that someone is hiding something how about this scenario.

Someone unscrupulous buys the wreck. Disposes of the wreck pocketing the data plate. Another plane is stolen or otherwise obtained (may have a massive lien). The data plate ends up on the other plane.

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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2017, 07:59 
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Good research on Ray's part but it is somewhat common to find. Keep in mind that this is a "buyer beware" marketplace. You can ask all the questions you can think of and still not get the answers you need - or even honest answers. Part of the reason is because brokers will not or do not review the logs (ignorance is bliss) or they misrepresent the facts.

I was asked by a buyer to look at a piston single several years ago that was advertised as NDH. In the log books it clearly stated that the vertical stabilizer was replaced due to a bird strike event. I brought it to the broker's attention and told him that he was misrepresenting the aircraft and had it overpriced for what it was. I don't think he was really surprised but this is one reason that field visits are so critical. Obviously, we passed on that one.

Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2017, 11:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Conveniently, there is a gap between logbooks #2 and #3 which spans the accident time.. shady.


Isn't that something. June 2007 to 2011. Wow, isn't that suspect? ;)

As Thomas Johnson mentioned in post 2, check the first logbook. That log starts early and then goes forward to cover the timeframe you reference.
There's an entry for an annual dated 12/05/08 that describes re-installation of engines following prop strike inspections, new props, and a host of fairly minor items. That entry has a reference to a repair done in accordance with a 337 that's dated the same day. It doesn't seem that the 337 itself is provided in the scanned logs.

Will
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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2017, 13:39 
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It took a while, but the accident repair *is* documented in the logbooks. (airframe 2).

The entry for the airframe log, "Annual 2008" by Air Craftsman of Chino, first line says, "Repaired in accordance with FAA form 337, December 5, 2008".

I'm surprised it was worth fixing. Looks a mess on that trailer.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2017, 23:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don't know if this is a possibility but after seeing the pictures I thought that would be a massive amount of work to fix. Being as it has the appearance that someone is hiding something how about this scenario.

Someone unscrupulous buys the wreck. Disposes of the wreck pocketing the data plate. Another plane is stolen or otherwise obtained (may have a massive lien). The data plate ends up on the other plane.


That's actually an interesting idea. No idea if that applies here, of course, but a good way to wash off a lien. I don't know if it'd be worth it came considering the loss in value due to the damage history.


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 Post subject: Re: Just shopping for Senecas and I see this..
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2017, 01:09 
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Location: KBDR Bridgeport, CT
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Unreal. Bury the repair in the back of the discontinued logbook (book 1) out of sequence so casual inspection doesn't uncover.

I also noted that the right engine got a tear down inspection, went back on the wing and 16 hours later was overhauled. By the same shop!

Seller/broker could certainly be more upfront.

Do your due diligence folks!


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