19 Apr 2024, 09:42 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !  Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 13:38 |
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Joined: 01/31/10
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Username Protected wrote:
10x the cost per hour of a PC12, I'll be surprised if they get 2.3!
It costs $400 to $500 per hour to operate a PC12 (incl. engine reserve)? I would have guessed significantly more.[/quote] Pilatus publishes their estimates as well. http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/00-def/ ... eFacts.pdf
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 14:00 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
Post Likes: +3026
Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote:
10x the cost per hour of a PC12, I'll be surprised if they get 2.3!
It costs $400 to $500 per hour to operate a PC12 (incl. engine reserve)? I would have guessed significantly more.
Pilatus publishes their estimates as well. http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/00-def/ ... eFacts.pdf
I don't think we are comparing apples to apples.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 14:55 |
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5233
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: So $3500 an hour to run a Citation X with 2 pilots and everything for 400 hours?
Or
$1K an hour for me to fly my own Pilatus 400 hours....
I'm not sure I'm buying the $3500 an hour to run a Citation X.
Let's say the Citation X cuts my flight times in half..... It's almost the same price.... But then I'm only flying 200 hours a year instead of 400. Now the cost is $7K an hour. Right?
It would take a helluva lot of flying to hit 400 hours in a Citation X. Your 400 hours in your Pilatus would probably become about 300 hours in a CJ3 depending on how much of your hours are long flights. Yeah, and 200 hours in a X. You would need to take more long trips. The X can get you to Maui.
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Allen
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 15:50 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Your 400 hours in your Pilatus would probably become about 300 hours in a CJ3 depending on how much of your hours are long flights. Yeah, and 200 hours in a X. You would need to take more long trips. The X can get you to Maui. Yeah, so $7K an hour for ME to run a Citation X. 400 hours in a Citation X and I think it would need to be on a charter program. You bring up an interesting point..... If you had a Citation X, how often would you fly it to Maui? Would you change your travel habits over what the CJ2 does for you? I contend that no matter what airplane I own, my desire to spend 4+ hours in it at a time will not increase. A Citation X would make my trips to Colorado, NYC, South Florida etc. (which I already do a lot of) easier but I do NOT think I would start doing frequent trips to Maui just because I owned a plan that could. That's still a long flight..
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 18:34 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote:
It costs $400 to $500 per hour to operate a PC12 (incl. engine reserve)? I would have guessed significantly more.
Pilatus publishes their estimates as well. http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/00-def/ ... eFacts.pdf
Those numbers are inline with what I am seeing. I'll be lower than that this year even with an HSI. I'm averaging about 450 hrs a year.
My JetA is what is helping out. My milk run has me stopping at KACT, where fuel is around $2 per gallon. At Nucla, I'm running about $3.
I've spoken with a number of Cessna owners and the CJ3+ is one of the most bullet proof airplanes going with incredible reliability and even operating costs. I would head that way, but I cannot get over the usefulness of the PC12 and it's ability to land pretty much anywhere. Coming into KFXE yesterday the weather was extremely nasty, they closed 27 for a short period as someone blew a tire (I'm sure because of wanting to get down and land and remove the praying from the passengers). Had to accept 31, which was 4,000ft. I'm sure doable by jet standards, but it was bucketing rain, I mean bucketing...........PC12 lands and stops no matter how wet/dry as it's all beta when you want it stopped hard, don't even use the frigging brakes.
I cannot get over the capability and ease of flying the PC12........it's been very, very well designed.
The biggest plus is I have my head system sorted out.........now I just gotta figure out the dog peeing and pooing.
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 19:26 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: Have you looked at the CJ3+ Mike? I've never seen one in the flesh. Yup, they have one at Texas Aero, Waco. The airplane is not as large as the PC12 and the loading is not as easy (at least for the stuff I carry). I'm still on the fence and the PC12 is such a forgiving airplane as you know. Also no deals to be had on the CJ3+, you basically cannot find em for sale.
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---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 19:39 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6784
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: 10x the cost per hour of a PC12, I'll be surprised if they get 2.3!
It costs $400 to $500 per hour to operate a PC12 (incl. engine reserve)? I would have guessed significantly more. From Wikipedia: "jet math" Jet Math refers to the factor between operating cost and acquisition cost. The more expensive it is to operate... the cheaper it is to buy! Maybe that was Chipipedia...
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 19:43 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6784
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Have you looked at the CJ3+ Mike? I've never seen one in the flesh. Yup, they have one at Texas Aero, Waco. The airplane is not as large as the PC12 and the loading is not as easy (at least for the stuff I carry). I'm still on the fence and the PC12 is such a forgiving airplane as you know. Also no deals to be had on the CJ3+, you basically cannot find em for sale.
Penman, next time you're in Waco let me know. I'm close and through there all the time.
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 20:23 |
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Joined: 08/08/12
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Username Protected wrote: So $3500 an hour to run a Citation X with 2 pilots and everything for 400 hours?
Or
$1K an hour for me to fly my own Pilatus 400 hours....
I'm not sure I'm buying the $3500 an hour to run a Citation X.
Let's say the Citation X cuts my flight times in half..... It's almost the same price.... But then I'm only flying 200 hours a year instead of 400. Now the cost is $7K an hour. Right?
It would take a helluva lot of flying to hit 400 hours in a Citation X. Ok Jason, that confused the hell out of me.  400 hours in the PC-12: $400,000.00 200 hours in the X to cover the same ground: $700,000.00
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 20:30 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
Posts: 11105
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Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote:
Yup, they have one at Texas Aero, Waco. The airplane is not as large as the PC12 and the loading is not as easy (at least for the stuff I carry).
I'm still on the fence and the PC12 is such a forgiving airplane as you know. Also no deals to be had on the CJ3+, you basically cannot find em for sale.
Penman, next time you're in Waco let me know. I'm close and through there all the time.
Go through there at least once a month. Will ping you on my next through trip.
My issue is that I divert to Tulsa if the weather is crappy over the middle part of the state.
Has been really, really crappy the last few days.
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 06 Jun 2017, 22:42 |
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Martti, Good thing you only sat in it. If you'd climbed in and climbed to FL410 pinned to the seat in an unrestricted climb you would have had to do laundry before going home!!!  As a good friend says lotsa Smash in those feathers. CJ3+ or even the CJ3 would be a dream for me too... Performance speed and range. Isn't justified, ohh my did I say that word?  JL if you ever drive a CJ3 you will ruin MH's balance sheet within months...
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Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 ! Posted: 07 Jun 2017, 02:56 |
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Username Protected wrote: 10x the cost per hour of a PC12, I'll be surprised if they get 2.3!
It costs $400 to $500 per hour to operate a PC12 (incl. engine reserve)? I would have guessed significantly more. From Wikipedia: "jet math" Jet Math refers to the factor between operating cost and acquisition cost. The more expensive it is to operate... the cheaper it is to buy! Maybe that was Chipipedia...
I did not write what you are attributing to me.
I wrote questioning Michael's assertion that he could operate his PC12 for $400-500 per hour incl engine reserve. I still don't think he can. Why is Jason's op cost per hour so much more? Direct operating costs perhaps, but not including fixed costs... And I'm not including capital costs.
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Jay
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