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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2017, 16:01 
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When we were 4 years old, a single year contained 25% of our life experiences, really more like 50% since few of us remember our first two years, even when we are 4...

At 10 years a single year was still 10% of our life.

At 25 years old... a year became just 1/25th of our life...

I'm closing on 50 and these 1/50th sized years are really small... they fly by.

Now you know... that's why the clock turns faster... it's a "real perception" as each year becomes a smaller part of our life experiences.



Methuselah: "Honey, what day is it?"
Mrs. Methuselah: " I think you meant to say, "What year is it?", dear...

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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 09:53 
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MH and I were talking about an arrival the other day. Look at KDAL, page two of the BACHR FOUR arrival. The thought of this arrival SP in a jet without good, well understood avionics intimidates me. You could say "well John if this bothers you, maybe you shouldn't fly a jet", maybe you are right! It is not that hard to fly but if I got surprised by it, ATC was super busy, I'm not 100% that day, I'm dealing with icing checklist etc and I'm a little slow interfacing with avionics, a cockpit designed for two pilots could get ahead of me (or almost as bad, I'm barely caught up and feeling the anxiety).

A CJ with good avionics is a walk in the park on something like this, a legacy Citation is a handful. I only sign up if I feel it's a walk in the park. I thought about MU2 but bought the KA for the same reason - MU2 is awesome in a lot of areas but the KA is easier to fly.

I'm not coming at this from a giant amount of experience but I do have some. I was a professional pilot in my 20's and early 30's. I've flown with pilots who are better than me and if they decide they can handle it, I don't fault that decision. Reminds me of the Toby Keith song, "I'm not as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was". I have also flown with pilots that aren't as experienced as me and don't know enough about the jet enviroment to know where they'll hit their limitations. Until you've spent a couple thousand hours in a jet, you don't get to experience the combination of events that will produce these challenges. I'm sure I'll still get surprised and get spanked but I my goal is to minimize this - a legacy citation sets me up for it so I'm not going there.


JL,
We have never met and all I know about you is what you have shared here on BT. Based on the totality of input so gathered I'd be honored to have you fly my most precious loved ones anytime or place. Honored is not correct. I'd feel comfortable and unworried about their safety in your hands and the aircraft you chose to use.

Your personal analysis and critique is what we should all be capable of doing on each and every flight not just in looking at aircraft to purchase. I do not believe all pilots can with such clarity and directness. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I believe they could save someone's life someday. Hats off.

Sincerely,
CET


Thanks Chuck, not sure that I deserve that but it was sure nice to hear.
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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 10:18 
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I made an offer on a CJ2 last week but they accepted another offer. My offer was a little bit higher but the other party had already seen the airplane and was ok with a minimal prebuy. (this one was due for a doc10 soon so doing that was our plan). This plane was priced below the market so I was ok with some overlap of owning the KA and the CJ2 at the same time.

My CFO & I worked through the numbers on the KA & CJ. The CJ is a little more expensive because my typical trip is <500NM. But the CJ gets us from AZ to the other side of the Mississippi whereas those flights start to get overly long in the KA (especially the East Coast). Later this year, we are going to be hitting the sales trail pretty hard and I don't want to shy away from East Coast trips or wait until I can stack a bunch of visits together - I want to go when the iron is hot.

I'm torn between a CJ2 and CJ3. A 3 will prevent a fuel stop coming back from the East coast in the winter but I don't see where that is enough motivation to spend the extra money. The real value with a 3 is the ability to lease to some friends of mine. It would be very useful to them whereas the 2 has limited seating (the 2 has six seats in back but two of them are "seat shaped purse holders"). The 3 is out of reach right now and I don't see where that will chance anytime soon and as much as I think the leasing income could offset the extra capital cost, I don't want to build a business plan around it.

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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 10:40 
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A 3 will prevent a fuel stop coming back from the East coast in the winter but I don't see where that is enough motivation to spend the extra money. The real value with a 3 is the ability to lease to some friends of mine. It would be very useful to them


It would indeed. :D

Get the 3

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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 15:09 
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When you add the lack of fuel stop benefit + the lease to your friends, then the 3 is the only logical option. JUMP ===> 3.


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2017, 19:47 
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Which market is softer the CJ2 or CJ3? Is there even a difference?

Are you looking at a CJ2 or a CJ2+

It's nice to have an airplane all to yourself!


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 16 Jun 2017, 04:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
I made an offer on a CJ2 last week but they accepted another offer.


Can I ask what the offer was and the spec of the CJ2, I'm looking at a 2 or a 3. The 2 market is very stable and has been for a while. The 3+ would be a dream, whilst I'm doing a demo in that in a few weeks it's out of my league at the moment.

From what I can see the CJ1 and CJ2 are pretty even in running costs, just capital costs differ, appears to be similar with all models.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2017, 22:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm torn between a CJ2 and CJ3. A 3 will prevent a fuel stop coming back from the East coast in the winter but I don't see where that is enough motivation to spend the extra money. The real value with a 3 is the ability to lease to some friends of mine. It would be very useful to them whereas the 2 has limited seating (the 2 has six seats in back but two of them are "seat shaped purse holders").


Keep in mind that the forward-facing club seats (in front of the rear two) have two controls for the position. If the rear two seats are not occupied, the club seats are slid back to almost touch the rear seats and it's possible that's what you saw when evaluating the CJ2.

However, if the aft most seats are going to be occupied, you use a lever at the base of the forward-facing club seats to slide them forward on the rail. You then move the carpet from the club section to behind the club to cover the rail.

With six in the back, you're not stretching your legs out (except in the aisle), but it's not uncomfortable, even with 6ft+ folks.


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 23 Jun 2017, 21:45 
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John,

Have been meaning to congratulate you on your CJ2 activities but have been swamped with work and plane shopping etc.--yes, all first world issues for sure but glad to see you are moving toward the CJ ownership paradigm. Ironically, Aviation Consumer has a great article on the CJ2+ that I am sure you have already seen.

And I need a CFO like yours b/c every time I mention airplane ownership to my CFO, he balks but I just attribute that to lack of imagination :lol: I will have to stick with the pistons for now but I do aspire to TP and I am trying to convince my CFO of what MP and JC claim about the Pilati but he keeps telling me that those numbers are simply self serving numbers that a pilot wants to believe to justify Pilatus ownership. He may be right but I really think he is in cahoots with my wife regarding this issue.

Anyway--Congrats and I hope you find that CJ2 or CJ2+/CJ3 for your business travels and keep us posted on your progress :thumbup:

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2017, 09:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
John,

Have been meaning to congratulate you on your CJ2 activities but have been swamped with work and plane shopping etc.--yes, all first world issues for sure but glad to see you are moving toward the CJ ownership paradigm. Ironically, Aviation Consumer has a great article on the CJ2+ that I am sure you have already seen.

And I need a CFO like yours b/c every time I mention airplane ownership to my CFO, he balks but I just attribute that to lack of imagination :lol: I will have to stick with the pistons for now but I do aspire to TP and I am trying to convince my CFO of what MP and JC claim about the Pilati but he keeps telling me that those numbers are simply self serving numbers that a pilot wants to believe to justify Pilatus ownership. He may be right but I really think he is in cahoots with my wife regarding this issue.

Anyway--Congrats and I hope you find that CJ2 or CJ2+/CJ3 for your business travels and keep us posted on your progress :thumbup:

Matt


Matt...the CFO serves the company at the pleasure of the CEO. Maybe he needs an education? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 29 Jun 2017, 22:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
John,

Have been meaning to congratulate you on your CJ2 activities but have been swamped with work and plane shopping etc.--yes, all first world issues for sure but glad to see you are moving toward the CJ ownership paradigm. Ironically, Aviation Consumer has a great article on the CJ2+ that I am sure you have already seen.

And I need a CFO like yours b/c every time I mention airplane ownership to my CFO, he balks but I just attribute that to lack of imagination :lol: I will have to stick with the pistons for now but I do aspire to TP and I am trying to convince my CFO of what MP and JC claim about the Pilati but he keeps telling me that those numbers are simply self serving numbers that a pilot wants to believe to justify Pilatus ownership. He may be right but I really think he is in cahoots with my wife regarding this issue.

Anyway--Congrats and I hope you find that CJ2 or CJ2+/CJ3 for your business travels and keep us posted on your progress :thumbup:

Matt


Matt...the CFO serves the company at the pleasure of the CEO. Maybe he needs an education? ;)


Chris,

You are definitely correct---him and I have a meeting tomorrow morning to discuss just that...As a friend of mine who owns a bunch of car dealerships once told his GMs----let's not forget whose name is on the signs out front :thumbup: :rock:

Matt

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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2017, 10:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
John,

Have been meaning to congratulate you on your CJ2 activities but have been swamped with work and plane shopping etc.--yes, all first world issues for sure but glad to see you are moving toward the CJ ownership paradigm. Ironically, Aviation Consumer has a great article on the CJ2+ that I am sure you have already seen.

And I need a CFO like yours b/c every time I mention airplane ownership to my CFO, he balks but I just attribute that to lack of imagination :lol: I will have to stick with the pistons for now but I do aspire to TP and I am trying to convince my CFO of what MP and JC claim about the Pilati but he keeps telling me that those numbers are simply self serving numbers that a pilot wants to believe to justify Pilatus ownership. He may be right but I really think he is in cahoots with my wife regarding this issue.

Anyway--Congrats and I hope you find that CJ2 or CJ2+/CJ3 for your business travels and keep us posted on your progress :thumbup:

Matt


Thanks Matt,
I have a ton of respect for my CFO. If she said a CJ was a bad idea, I wouldn't do it. But I know she'd only say that if it was true. What's great about her is she grew up around aviation. Her dad owned an aviation fuel business and went she worked at E&Y (I think it was E&Y, not sure) she was an auditor for Beechcraft (she met Olive). My team loves the idea of our company owning an airplane. They hear about a sales call and get excited when we load up a team and head out to see them (sometimes right away). Nobody feels like it is extravagant, when we are out on the road, we are hammering day & night. My CFO gets this and gets excited about sales as well - after all, she can do math.

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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 21:47 
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Made another offer on a nice CJ2 and after a bit of back and forth, they accepted! Put some $ in escrow and heading to see it next week. I'm not excited just yet, I promised myself I'd settle in for a long term search and only make the right deal.

I wasn't bottom fishing. I believe this one is the nicest on the market and we came to a fair price.

4 people chasing the KA so I'm thinking it's priced right and should sell over the next few months.

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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 05 Aug 2017, 22:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
Made another offer on a nice CJ2 and after a bit of back and forth, they accepted! Put some $ in escrow and heading to see it next week. I'm not excited just yet, I promised myself I'd settle in for a long term search and only make the right deal.

I wasn't bottom fishing. I believe this one is the nicest on the market and we came to a fair price.

4 people chasing the KA so I'm thinking it's priced right and should sell over the next few months.



John,

That is fantastic news and congratulations!! I don't know much about the CJ2s so I can't say how much you will enjoy it like others, but sounds like it will serve your business needs and add to your productivity which is what it's all about at that level. Congrats again and keep us posted on the acquisition and adventures!! :rock:

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: First flight in the CJ2 !
PostPosted: 07 Aug 2017, 08:47 
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Thanks Matt!

What is nice about the CJ is by most accounts it's cost per NM is close to the King Air. The cabin isn't as big as the KA but the seats can slide towards the isle. 1400NM range is about the same as the KA but 400kts makes a big difference on those long trips.

The other thing we like is the programs. You pay by the hour for an engine and parts program and these remove a good deal of the risk of operating something like this and of course provide some cost leveling.

I'm flying out to see it today but I'm pretty sure it is just a formality (it has new P&I). I'm excited to cross this one off the bucket list!

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