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18 Mar 2024, 23:42 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 16:32 
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This is cross-posted from supercubs.org. Figured I'd put it here, since there are more readers. And I'm a little concerned Super Cub fans might be offended, though I don't mean it that way. Anyway, the post:

I'm looking -- looking hard -- at buying a Supercub vs a C-180. (I realize that's an odd combination, but it's driven by personal factors regarding the future of my Bonanza.) Reading reviews everywhere from Aviation Consumer to Air Progress to this site, you'll repeatedly see PA-18's and C-185's referred to as "workhorse" bushplanes, especially in Alaska. But what kind of work are these horses doing?

I recently spent a week in Soldotna, where there are close to 100 airplanes tied down. I'd guess two-thirds are Super Cubs. Most of the rest are C-180/185's, with two C-337's, one Cherokee, and the odd C-150 and C-170 thrown in. But almost all of these are for the private enjoyment of their owners, as best anyone can tell. In fact, fully half haven't flown in years. There's no evidence that any of them are used for commerce. The commerce is all done in Casas, King Airs, and a GA8 Airvan. At smaller airports, I'm told Kodiaks are common.

The villages out in the bush all have runways; it's a rare place that can't be served by a King Air.

So, besides hauling tourists to remote places and bear watching, is it still true that Alaska depends on these airplanes?

Here's why I'm asking: As I look at buying a Super Cub instead of, say, a Citabria or even a Kitfox, people say "a Super Cub (or 185) will always keep its value because it has so much commercial application." I have my doubts, but I'm anxious to be convinced.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 17:21 
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i think their certainly perceived that way, if you don't believe me just ask on www.supercub.org.
over my flying years i've owned 2 and they sure are fun down close and personal with ground and rivers.
gary

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 22:38 
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Right, but the question is, what type of work are they doing? ISTM that it boils down to tourism.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 23:14 
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they have probably hauled more hunters, guides, guns and supplies in and out of the bush than all other planes together not to mention hauling moose, bear, etc. out. i'm sure there's a few(many) human rescues also.
gary

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 23:31 
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Stuart - one thing to consider in your economic argument is that there are still several companies making improved versions of the Super Cub. So an old airplane is competing with new ones, much like the V tails with Cirrus. The Cessna taildraggers are no longer produced, no new competition.

I would also advise that expecting a plane to always hold its value is a questionable economic principle anyway. Remember how all airplanes went up in value in the eighties and ninesties? People thought they were just like houses. Then values for houses and airplanes crashed in the financial crisis. Houses mostly recovered, the planes haven't and won't.

Buy the plane you love so much it's worth taking a loss on later. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 27 Apr 2017, 23:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
Right, but the question is, what type of work are they doing? ISTM that it boils down to tourism.


yeah - as you note, the sort of mission that a supercub can do that a 206 can't is to land in the middle of nowhere and pick up a dude and half a moose. To the extent that in much of Alaska nothing moves but by air, there's presumably a market for such planes. But not on a fixed route - it's not hard to build a runway that will accommodate a 206 that carries a lot more thana cub.


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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 11:48 
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Location: Boise, ID (S78)
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This father and son team use their Super Cubs to handle aviation insurance claims all over Alaska. They couldn't do their job without the Cubs, unless they hired somebody to take them everywhere, or bought a helicopter.

Attachment:
Cub Christmas.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 12:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
This father and son team use their Super Cubs to handle aviation insurance claims all over Alaska. They couldn't do their job without the Cubs, unless they hired somebody to take them everywhere, or bought a helicopter.

Attachment:
Cub Christmas.jpg


This is awesome.

I think Caravans and the like are doing the heavy commercial work. But Super Cubs (or any of the modern variants) can still do a whole lot of minutia for very low operating costs. That's why there are so many modern variants manufactured by different companies that have been in business for a long time.

AG

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 12:08 
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I am sure Alejandro can elaborate on this, but after seeing an X Cub , I'm not sure I would look at a Super Cub again.
The build quality and overall ergonomics are fantastic, and they seem to hold their value very well.
I want one. Bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 12:11 
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I agree, they are absolutely incredible. I love the Carbon Cub but the X-Cub is just perfection with that extra speed. A very elegant personal transport that makes runway features and conditions irrelevant.

AG

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 12:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
I agree, they are absolutely incredible. I love the Carbon Cub but the X-Cub is just perfection with that extra speed. A very elegant personal transport that makes runway features and conditions irrelevant.

AG


And at such an affordable price! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 12:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
I agree, they are absolutely incredible. I love the Carbon Cub but the X-Cub is just perfection with that extra speed. A very elegant personal transport that makes runway features and conditions irrelevant.

AG


And at such an affordable price! :D


:coffee: But the OP Super Cub is a very good deal for a business.
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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 16:27 
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
The C185 and Beavers on floats is a workhorse around here. Its used for hauling customers to remote fishing camps and cabins, hauling supplies or giving rides to tourists.
I don't see one Super Cub operating commercially around here but they do in Alaska spotting fish or pulling banners in FL.

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 18:02 
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Company: Retired
Location: Farmersville, TX
Aircraft: 2007 RANS S-6ES
I'm building a Bearhawk Patrol (2-seat version) because I really wanted a Cub, but don't fit in one at all. I'm a bigger guy, with bigger friends. A Super Cub is just incredibly crowded, hard to get in and out of, etc. The Patrol is flown solo from the front seat, has a 31" wide cockpit, and has much larger doors for easier entry/exit. Empty weights range from around 1050 to 1300 lbs (truly a "deluxe" interior) against a Utility gross weight of 2000 lbs (2200 lbs would be "Standard" category).

With a realistic UL of around 900+ lbs, and a stall speed around 30 mph (not knots, MPH), and a max cruise speed around 150 mph (135 knots) with a 180 HP O-360, it's an extremely versatile airplane that flies as slow as an unmodified Cub, and is as fast (possibly faster) than an X-Cub, but can be built for a LOT less money (well under 1/3 the cost) if you're a scratch-builder or halfway decent at parts scrounging.

I counted up all the times I've filled more than two seats while flying (3 times in 39 years of flying), and realized I'd much rather look out the windows on both sides of the airplane, and be able to play "low and slow" while still making decent cross-country progress. So I sold the Commander 114, bought a 7ECA to fly while I build, and started the Patrol build. I'm very happy with my decision thus far, 1.5 years into it...

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 Post subject: Re: Is the PA-18 Still an Alaskan "Workhorse?"
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2017, 19:01 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
I"m signed up to enjoy this thread. AK the only way to get around much of the year with the weather and distance to remote villages is via plane. This is going to be fun to watch Stu. :thumbup: :coffee:

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