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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 16:42 
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Company: Well, it's UA now
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Chrysler was building and testing turbines in automobiles from the very early 60's through the late 70's. They halted all R&D in turbines in 1978 when they reorganized for the bankruptcy. I believe that they were up to Gen IV or Gen V on their engines when they finally called it off.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 17:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Whatever happened to the 300 hp turbine that Rolls Royce was working on about 10 years ago? I know I've asked before, but it seems to have just fallen off the earth.


Well, according to the RR website (https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/civil-aerospace/helicopters/rr300.aspx#/) , it is available for fixed wing (see blurb at the top of the page) but currently, its only application seems to be helicopter (R66).


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 21:18 
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It's here on their website anyway, buried under business aviation at the last in the list.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-an ... oprop.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 23:11 
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Company: Inscrutable Fasteners, LLC
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[youtube]https://youtu.be/Zyvv9HQObcQ[/youtube]

I would have to think the only thing cooler to own would be a Tucker


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 08:48 
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Joined: 05/23/08
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Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
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Wow cool car and it had auto start in 1963. 50 years later and I dont even have that in my 2013 TBM.
:scratch:




Username Protected wrote:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Zyvv9HQObcQ[/youtube]

I would have to think the only thing cooler to own would be a Tucker

_________________
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Pistons engines are for tractors.

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 14:04 
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I've heard two schools of thought on the viability of these smaller turbines.

1) controlling the gap between the blades and the structure which they spin within is key to efficiency. On small turbines, even a small gap is a large percentage of the area.

2) most turbines are designed to operate at very high altitude and very high velocity. It is possible to design an efficient small turbine for our sort of airplane if the intent is to do so from the start (Hope that makes sense)

I have no idea if either is true, just what I have heard


Gap and blade shape are two critical components to turbine efficiency. I suspect that there might be some money still on those tables which could be found with today's technologies. But cost of manufacture is likely still a difficult issue to overcome. From what I've read, cost to build doesn't scale well with turbines, especially turboshaft engines so it might still be very difficult to produce a small engine at a small engine price.

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It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 14:40 
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The military is looking at smaller UAVs powered by turbine engines. The prices and efficiency will improve in the future. The engines may not be much more to purchase than a typical large piston engine. Yes, there are challenges with manufacturing as previously mentioned. But there have been some advancements which should help.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 15:24 
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Back in the 60's a company fitted a small Rover Turbine to a deHavilland Chipmunk. Neat idea then just like it's a neat idea now.

https://books.google.com/books?id=A8xi- ... nk&f=false


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 15:28 
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got this fella too

https://www.fastcompany.com/60868/motorhead-messiah

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:22 
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Username Protected wrote:

If he really thinks a turbine powered Hummer will get 60 mpg he's in for a rude surprise, hybrid or no hybrid.

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It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:41 
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If he really thinks a turbine powered Hummer will get 60 mpg he's in for a rude surprise, hybrid or no hybrid.


That's why I never believe anything on the internet, unless of course it's on BT!
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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:43 
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Also discussed on homebuiltairplanes.com
When you compare to diesel compression engines, the efficiency is just not there.
However, with a target price of a certified engine as a comparison, it may just be viable.
For an IO-360; 180 HP you are looking between 30-40K. If they can actually get it within that range they may have a viable solution for the EX-B market.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:45 
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Here's someone else who seems to have found a way to make small turboprops efficient:

http://tinyurl.com/microturboprop

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It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 16:59 
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This is the technology that has a chance to completely change the game.

Turbine power/weight ratio and better efficiency than diesel. It's not pie in the sky, either, these guys are real scientists and engineers and have already demonstrated the potential. The simplicity of the engine should lead, eventually, to high reliability as well, which is what's needed for an aviation power plant.

It's a few years out, though.

Nathan


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2017, 17:19 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is the technology that has a chance to completely change the game.

Turbine power/weight ratio and better efficiency than diesel. It's not pie in the sky, either, these guys are real scientists and engineers and have already demonstrated the potential. The simplicity of the engine should lead, eventually, to high reliability as well, which is what's needed for an aviation power plant.

It's a few years out, though.

Nathan


It has been a few years out for a long time. Basically, the "inventor" inverted a traditional wankel rotary engine. The end result is he likely will run into the same issues all rotary engines have: seals and efficiency.

Tim


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