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19 Mar 2024, 04:04 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 00:00 
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Joined: 01/16/11
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:D

Turbines way more reliable.........

JetA is half the price of Avgas.........

......carry on

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 08:22 
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Joined: 03/17/08
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Username Protected wrote:
:D

Turbines way more reliable.........

JetA is half the price of Avgas.........

......carry on


Yeah, but they smell really bad....

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Be Nice, Kind, I don't care, be something, just don't be a jerk ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 09:37 
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Joined: 10/05/11
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Company: Power/mation
Location: Milwaukee, WI (KMKE)
Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
I've heard two schools of thought on the viability of these smaller turbines.

1) controlling the gap between the blades and the structure which they spin within is key to efficiency. On small turbines, even a small gap is a large percentage of the area.

2) most turbines are designed to operate at very high altitude and very high velocity. It is possible to design an efficient small turbine for our sort of airplane if the intent is to do so from the start (Hope that makes sense)

I have no idea if either is true, just what I have heard

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 10:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
They claim it will make 100hp on 8 gph, which is 12.5hp/gph, which is what a 7:1 compression avgas engine makes LOP.

Not sure I find that credible.


Some of the their claims in the VAF thread:

Quote:
Our 200hp engine will be optimized for a 180hp cruise. At that power, the fuel flow is anticipated to be 14.6gph. When pulled back to 135hp, I would estimate (we don't have actual figures yet for the -200) that the fuel flow would be about 12-13gph. This is only 20-30% more than the O360 at the same power but the engine installation is 250-300lbs heavier for the O360.

...

Actually, the group of RV owners that are interested in developing the FWF package have RV9s and were interested in our -120 engine. I guess that our -120 at OCP (100hp) is the same power as the O360 at 55% power with our -120 burning 8.4gph and the O360 burning 7.7gph so very similar fuel burns at that power setting. 36 gallons still gives just under 4 hours endurance plus VFR reserves. The 36g of JetA will weigh a tad more than the same volume of Avgas, but the installation is 300 lbs lighter, maybe 250lbs with a modified nose but still appreciably lighter. That will help offset the reduced power available for take-off and climb.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 10:12 
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Joined: 05/13/14
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... but the engine installation is 250-300lbs heavier for the O360.

Lighter is better, but doesn't this present some significant balance problems?


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 10:26 
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Quote:
... but the engine installation is 250-300lbs heavier for the O360.

Lighter is better, but doesn't this present some significant balance problems?


Yeah - look at a Malibus vs. Jetprop


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 10:47 
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Quote:
... but the engine installation is 250-300lbs heavier for the O360.

Lighter is better, but doesn't this present some significant balance problems?


Think of it as an opportunity for an extra baggage compartment in the nose :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 11:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Lighter is better, but doesn't this present some significant balance problems?


Think of it as an opportunity for an extra baggage compartment in the nose :thumbup:

More like an obligation. And the baggage needs to be lead or gold. :shrug:

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 11:33 
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Yeah, but they smell really bad....


Hmmmmm, not to me!

:dance:

Murray


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 11:48 
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Joined: 08/26/15
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Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
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Username Protected wrote:
A turbo prop sounds 47% better than a piston....

Cannot Agree

OK, round engines and unmuffled V12s.

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 11:56 
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Joined: 02/14/08
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Location: KGBR
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plus augmentor tubes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idyBFkxacjk


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 13:05 
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Cheap turbine is possible but not in GA. Chrysler built one for the "jet car" which was comparable in price and efficiency to a piston engine. In GA that 150hp turbine will cost $500,000 and burn 25 gph.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 14:38 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cheap turbine is possible but not in GA. Chrysler built one for the "jet car" which was comparable in price and efficiency to a piston engine. In GA that 150hp turbine will cost $500,000 and burn 25 gph.


The manufacturing landscape has changed enough that I think this is no longer true. The SubSonex uses a turbine that has to burn about 18 gal/hr on about 200 hp, and cost $55,000.


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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 14:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cheap turbine is possible but not in GA. Chrysler built one for the "jet car" which was comparable in price and efficiency to a piston engine. In GA that 150hp turbine will cost $500,000 and burn 25 gph.


The manufacturing landscape has changed enough that I think this is no longer true. The SubSonex uses a turbine that has to burn about 18 gal/hr on about 200 hp, and cost $55,000.

also it may be more true then than now - note that Chrysler only made one of those and who knows what it cost them?

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 Post subject: Re: Small Turbines
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2017, 15:53 
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[/quote]also it may be more true then than now - note that Chrysler only made one of those and who knows what it cost them?[/quote]

Actually they made several vehicles which were given to dealerships to demo and were ready for production when a last minute decision was made to pull the design. The reason for pulling the car was political not because of any issue with the design. It would run on any fuel and was very reliable. The turbine went on to power the M1 Abrams tank.

Jay Leno(who has the only running example) has a great video on the Jet Car.


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