Would they have wiped the balance clear if you weren't buying an M2? Not being snarky, honest question.

I thought the deficit stayed with the the plane, so if the next owner wanted to be on ProParts they would need to fork over the balance?

Chip-

ProParts contracts terminate at the end of the term (typically three years), when selling the airplane, or if the airplane is destroyed. ProParts contracts and/or balances do not transfer between owners.

At termination, 65% of a credit balance is refunded to the operator (this is called an "efficiency bonus").

There is no obligation to pay a negative balance.

Here's the deal on ProParts

1. If you have a negative ProParts balance when you sell the airplane, the seller has to pay the balance.
- Unless you are at the end of the contract.

2. If you are at the end of your ProParts contract (36 months) and have a negative balance, the negative balance goes away.

3. If you have a negative balance when the airplane is sold, you have to pay it AND the new owner must pay an enrollment fee.

4. If there is a positive balance in ProParts when the aircraft is sold the seller gets 65% of the positive balance applied to their net 30 account and the new owner does not have to pay an enrollment fee.

*The above is 100% accurate as of today, but is subject to change because Textron is a really big company and they like to change things!

I believe this to be correct. I just happened to be at the end of my contract when I sold the Mustang. Guess I just got lucky (for once).

so if you are at the end of your contract and you have a negative balance but want to stay on proparts, do you have to pay the balance?

Chip-

ProParts are 3-yr contracts. When you reach the end of a contract term with a negative balance, and you want to re-up for another 3 years, the negative balance goes away and you start over with a zero balance.

I can't swim in that end of the pool, but I'm curious, does the 3-year contract get more expensive as the plane ages/collects hours?

" I can't swim in that end of the pool." I have absolutely nothing to add to this conversation, but I am definitely stealing that.

The rates go up over time due to inflation and the claims performance of the pool. Come on in. The water is warm.

Can you sign up for Proparts without a buy in if the aircraft was not already on it?

I believe you can, but there is an enrollment fee.

We are far, far ahead on our aircraft without proparts. Our Mustang is on it due to the owners request and it forces our hand to Textron supplied parts, doesn't make sense to source overhauled etc. Example - we needed a battery. Textron wanted over $3000 for it, I could have got it through aircraft spruce with a discount for $1,600. Of course there's always the horror stories, but 3 years in to Mustang ownership we haven't come close to the 200 hours we're paying into/flying annually.

Our CJ required about 12k worth of maintenance in the first 70 hours of ownership cleaning up items from previous owner. On Parts and Labor programs that would have been $30k+.

I don't see the point either on our M2 and our owner agrees. I've spoke to many shops getting opinions on this and they agree as well.

If you have to have an absolute flat budget then I can make see the case for parts.

What are your thoughts about the Williams engine program?

Most of the owners prefer the engine program for one reason or another. With Williams they've got you by the cajones. I feel a percentage of my clients would prefer to self insure and take the chance they'd come out ahead however I haven't seen any reports of that with Williams. I have seen reports of that scenario with Pratt's as other shops can do the work. My professional recommendation to clients is if you are flying at least 100 hours per year (as Williams has 150 hour mins) that you should opt to find an aircraft on TAP. Anything engine related is going to be very, very expensive to fix if it happens prematurely off program.

That said, you can buy an aircraft for substantially less capital without TAP which is advantageous for many reasons (taxes, possibly avoid financing, avoid $44k+ annual in program payments, flexibility to not fly the minimum hour requirements etc). Purchase prices rarely reflect a directly hourly discount over aircraft on programs granting more value to aircraft currently enrolled.

I don't think it's fair, especially when you look at TBO extensions granted to owners on programs from 4 to 5000 hours but that is not afforded to people not enrolled.

I will say the Williams portal to enter times and pay monthly is easy and secure. The few times I've needed customer service it was very pleasant.

Citation Manager
Owner of Gateway Jets
Sales, Acquisitions, Pilot Services, Management