It's driving me crazy how unrealistic some people are with how much they think their plane is worth?!? Why list it if you don't want to sell it?

Or the proverbial > call for Price <

Buying things from rich people is a lot of work. You've gotta hammer the phones.

Michael,

First, those sellers did nothing to you, if the prices they advertised as willing to sell for are too high (for you), or they are unwilling to tell you that price without putting you through the inconvenience of making a phone call, just keep moving.

If your knickers are getting in a bunch over an airplane advertisement, that's on you.

Bottom line:

1. Those advertisements you are pouring over in an attempt to understand the market and find a bargain are paid for by the sellers, it's their game, they get to decide what goes into their advertising.

(On BT the rules say you need to list a price, but BT is ruled by the Jeffs so they have the power to set the requirements for advertising on their web site.)

2. You are free to hire an expert to assist in your hunt for that perfect airplane, or to take out an aircraft wanted advertisement in Trade-A-Plane or other aviation publication.


Instead you are looking at what's free (paid for by someone else) and complaining about the quality of information provided.

I'm reminded of the the fellow who went to lunch at the all-you-can-eat buffet, as he returned to work a co-worker asked how his meal was, his answer: "Not good, the fried chicken was undercooked and greasy AND there wasn't enough of it!"

Have a great weekend!

Yes, it's a frustration for me too, but if you're seriously looking and don't have time to wade through the BS, hire someone that does that for a living. I found that someone I hired, knew a lot of the folks with listings and was good enough at BS to cut through it for me. Some of the sellers don't want to deal with someone that's not serious. Getting a good rep can move that along too.

"Agreed! I talked to a TBM C2 owner who actually thought his airplane was worth over $1M! Unreal...
We all know they're only worth about $500K.
Is yours for sale yet, btw?? "

Ha Ha Don. That was funny. Seriously a plane is worth what the two parties agree it is worth in an arms length transaction. One should feel they got a good deal and the other should also. While the seller may regret selling he should feel that he got a fair price.

In my case once I had one sold by a broker for me. But I had to deal with the buyer up close and personal inspecting/flying the plane. The short of that story is I'd never do business with him again. Never. Trash talked my plane etc. oh my was it a nightmare. Life's way too shooorrtt for those types.

Michael if you are selling for Don's price please let me out bid him $1. In fact we will take it for $1 over the 1 million.

Hope I'm not overpaying...

I understand what you're saying. When I was looking for a Mustang, there were several listed (and some of them still are, two years later) that were not for sale. I don't completely understand it, but I think there are those that need to have their airplane look like it's for sale.

My advice is to hire an industry insider. They know the market, they know where the BS is, they'll have knowledge of airplanes that haven't been listed yet, and they'll know how to keep you from getting damaged. The turbine world is different.

At first I thought you meant this one
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?cat ... e=aircraft
This ad has been running for years, never changes. Last edited in 2014 but I'm sure I saw it for years before that. Gotta wonder what the story is there.

Forrest........not sure I follow. I don't even own knickers.......

I have flown many 100's and I might even be current on the 61.58 ...

Just checking back on this thread. I haven't read all 19 pages but the 100 has always done everything it's supposed to do for me including stop on wet runways. Now ref+15 landing downwind on polished concrete, who knows, I haven't tried it. 4,000' is a general planning runway minimum rule of thumb used by operators I know. It's a jet after all.

Jet Acquisitions... we beat our heads against the wall so you don't have to!

That's my new sales pitch!

chip,
So that explains the flat spots? LOL

Using a broker that knows the market/aircraft in question is usually a very good move for a buyer. Some people can spend the time to research for themselves but that is time consuming and fraught with peril for the uninitiated in the turbine world.

Type specific brokers know the aircraft, shops, mechanics and owners. Planes not currently listed but for sale, most recent sales, prices they sold for, hours and specs of those planes. You get what you pay for. BWTHDIK > BTDT both ways

You guys be nice to Michael, he is a serious buyer... and a nice guy. The issue he mentioned is unfortunately very real!

I think the assumption is that the owner thinks his plane is worth more than it is, that may be the case but it's usually not the problem. The broker / listing agent is the one creating the problem. In today's market listing agents live and die by their listings, they have to have listings on their website to attract customers... and more listings.

The competition to find an aircraft to list for sale is fierce, the owners on here have all received the numerous phone calls, emails, snail mail...

A good and established company like Gantt Aviation, Elliott Jets, O'gara Jet, Front Range, Cerretani (I could go on, but someone will be mad that I left them out anyway) is able to attract listings because they've been in business for years. A new company has a more difficult time, the need to get a listing often exceeds the desire to tell the owner what he can realistically expect to get for his aircraft. The companies that are not desperate for listings won't take a listing unless the owner is willing to sell the airplane at market price.

Brokers who are too aggressive to get listings are the most common source of over-priced listings.

In some cases the broker may try to sell you a different airplane that is a better deal, in some cases he may just be rude because he knows it's too high and he isn't going to sell it but he's hoping he can get a listing on another airplane that he can sell.

The aircraft sales industry is largely made up of people with a lot of knowledge about airplanes but less about sales, customer service and professional business etiquette. It's a cottage industry in many ways, in fact three of the companies I mentioned above were the pioneers in aviation sales. The idea of selling airplanes as we know it has only been around since the 1960's, it's a low volume niche industry. It's made up of a bunch of great people and a few outright crooks... if you come from the corporate world and a mature industry... you're not likely to be impressed.

I've been buying airplanes for 15 years and I have echoed Michael's frustration many times. Add to that the fact that many phone calls and emails aren't returned at all. Most aircraft advertised aren't priced, many as he pointed out are not priced realistically. When you do talk to someone they may be a slick used car type salesman or worse someone who can't sell at all... or even worse an unethical crook that is looking to scam you out of a deposit or sell you a problem... put it all together and it becomes a hostile environment for potential buyers.

It is easier for us, we know who to deal with and who to avoid, in many cases we deal directly with owners, but it's still time consuming. The research and time that goes into finding and closing a good deal on a good airplane is considerable.

It's a lot of work and I love it. I enjoy meeting our clients, we get to know and work for really exceptional people! I like working for buyers, I don't miss selling airplanes at all... and I don't have to worry about getting listings to fill up my website!!!

Chuck,
You should see the size of my head. No wall can withstand my cranium!