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06 Dec 2019, 19:53 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 18:50 
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 11230
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1959 Travel Air
Big and comfy. Tons of easy to access luggage space. Difference b/w pa32 and be36 on a 500 mile trip is in the 20min range. Pay a cfi $20 to pull out and preflight for you and you make that up.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 19:53 
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Joined: 07/15/11
Posts: 3739
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Location: Owensboro, KY (KOWB)
Aircraft: 1957 Bonanza H35
How about instrument access from the top? Glare shield removal?


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 21:00 
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Joined: 05/04/11
Posts: 298
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Location: Covington, GA
Aircraft: 421C
Glareshield does not come out, but access is better from under the panel compared to the bo (no seat tracks digging in your spine). Also there is access to behind the instrument panel through the forward baggage compartment.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 21:14 
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Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 864
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Company: CSB Solutions
Location: Jasper, GA (KJZP)
Aircraft: 1964 Baron B55
I owned a 1976 straight tail Lance for several years. Loved the plane at the time, primarily the room and comfort of the thing. It wasn't particularly fast at ~ 150K & 16-17 GPH but it was fast enough. The most disturbing thing was the 500 FPM climb whether max gross or light.

Maintenance concerns were relatively minimal but the plane was in good condition when I bought it. One thing I really disliked was the mag set-up. Dual mags driven by a single shaft. Had a few mag problems over the years.

Flew a friends T Tail Lance and in cruise, couldn't tell the difference in his or mine. In landing, the T Tail ran out of elevator pretty quickly. Led to the practice of power on approaches and dragging it in. Not the best practice but helped with airflow.

As others have suggested, run the numbers on your typical missions and see what the difference in time is. For me, it wasn't that much of a hardship.

If you fly one, I think you'll like it. It isn't as responsive in the controls but, it's a stable instrument platform and a workhorse.

Good luck in the search.

_________________
Ed
1976 C23 Sundowner
1980 A36 Bonanza - Sold
1964 B55 Baron - Sold
1980 PA28-236 - Sold


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 22:31 
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Joined: 09/10/13
Posts: 1943
Post Likes: +1330
Location: Lexington, KY (KIOB)
Aircraft: G35 B95A Z526F SU26
My notes reflect what a few posts say. 150-ish knots at 16gph.

I've only ridden in one, and it was definitely roomy. Third row seating puts full size guy's head in the headliner, but there is plenty of shoulder room all through the cabin.

_________________
Steven Morgan
^middle name


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 22:48 
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Joined: 11/20/14
Posts: 3838
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Aircraft: V35
What I've heard about the t tails is that they essentially limit you to longer runways. Due to lower elevator effectiveness, needs more speed and hence room to take off and land.

As others have said, the flat floor on the Pipers is more comfortable than the Bonanzas when working under the instrument panel. My Archer did not have a removable glareshield, everything was done from under the panel.

It's great that all five in your family travel together. I do hear from families that as the kids get into teenage years there are less all family trips...and pretty soon a four seater will work again for most of not all trips.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2016, 23:55 
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Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 293
Post Likes: +29
Aircraft: Piper Aztec D
OK, Mike, it's my turn. I actually own a T-tail Lance currently and will give you the "facts".

Similar to you, I came from a Debonair (which I sold right here on BT) before I purchased the Lance II. I have owned it for 3+ years now. Like you, my boys were (are) growing fast and we quickly ran out of useful load in the Deb. My considerations when shopping for a six-seater were the big 3: C210, A36, and P32R (Lance or Saratoga).

I am sure that the C210 is a fine plane, but it felt small to me, particularly in the back. We make several long trips a year, and I just wasn't feeling it in the Cessna.

The A36's that I could afford were typically high engine and/or airframe time and all needed avionics to boot. I do enjoy the feel and the speed of Bonanza, but that comes at a premium.

That left me with the Lance. The one I ended up buying had a fresh major on the engine (10 hours), low time 3-blade prop (400 hours), nice paint, club seating, a functional autopilot, and an IFR enroute GPS. Basically my minimum criteria. What sealed the deal was the Lopresti Cowl. It really makes the plane look modern and adds some knots from what I understand. I wouldn't know because I have only operated this plane with it already installed.

Loading the plane is awesome. It has nearly 1400 lbs of useful and a CG that is very forgiving. There is a front baggage area with a separate door as well as the rear cabin/cargo door that makes easy loading of pretty much anything you want.

Comfort is probably its greatest trait. In most all of the planes I have owned before (Cherokee, Mooney, Deb), the pilot and copilot are rubbing shoulders. Not in this plane. Its enormous in the front seats. The rear seats also have plenty of shoulder room and head room.

Cruise performance is respectable. I generally cruise at 155 kts between 8-10,000 ft burning 16.5 gph. My cylinders are not balanced with a 1.5 gph spread, so I am installing GAMI's this winter. I anticipate 1 gph reduction in fuel burn. Even with this spread, I can run LOP, but I generally do not due to concern over the large spread. I will once GAMI's are on.

Takeoff performance is also of no concern. I have heard all of the talk on the t-tail and its short comings, but I just don't see it. Full disclosure: I have installed every gap seal, fairing, and speed mod available, so maybe a stock Lance II would change my opinion. Fully loaded, I can easily get off the ground in 2000 feet on a hot day and climb between 500-1000 all day long. Taking off in the winter, 1000+ fully loaded and 1500+ lightly loaded is entirely possible. What more do you need?

Landings are also a none event once you get used to the feel. The use of trim during landing is absolutely necessary. When I first began flying the plane, I nearly landed on the nose due to the unexpected back pressure necessary to bring the nose up. Once I got the trim strategy down, landings have been comfortable. I routinely fly into 2500 ft grass strips.

That's my educated opinion on the Lance II. I hope it provides you with some insight. Feel free to PM me and we could exchange numbers if you would like to talk.

Blue Skies,
Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 00:52 
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Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 41
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Location: Coloma, WI
Aircraft: PA32R-300
Mike, I was just in the same exact position as you. My family has grown to six total and we didn't fit in the archer any more. In the worst way I wanted an A36 (for the same reasons--speed, fuel burn, handling, and just because it is a Beech) but I ended up letting my true mission dictate and bought a '77 Lance.

I couldn't be happier!!

I found one that is very well updated and equipped (for what I thought was a steal). It has all speed mods except the howl cowl and I am seeing 160kts tas. That is at 75% power and burning 16.5-18gal/hr. That number is off the Aspen 1000. It also has a garmin 430w, 530w, Avidyne 600tas traffic, 330 transponder, and 340? audio panel.

There are nice ones out there if you have a little patience. I like the fact that I have an IO540/normally aspirated rather than either of the continentals in the A36. (To many cylinder issues and now another cylinder AD) I only have 11 hrs in it so far but am very pleased!!

If you want more info send me a PM with your number and I will give you any info I can help you with.

Matt

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 00:54 
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Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 41
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Location: Coloma, WI
Aircraft: PA32R-300
Thought I would add a picture of my new ride.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2016, 12:30 
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Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 2190
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: FF-AX7, C-182, BE-95
I have to echo what Don noted. I used to fly an 86 Turbo Saratoga and loved it. One of the pilots (not me!) put it through a thunderstorm and it came out in one piece but there was a few oblong holes in the exhaust stack and a few dents.

It is a sturdy plane with a lot of UL and the turbo worked well. Given the entry doors, you might want a cargo net to go up for little kids in the back. Granted, for their oxygen needs until they can wear cannulas, you would want to stay lower and not be able to use all the capabilities on the 32-301T.

The Cherokee 6 is also pretty nice.

The other thing to consider is that the buy in on a Bo may be higher but they are solid aircraft and there are plenty of helpful people and Cheap Son of Beeches that help people help themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 13:55 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1509
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Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
My family has expanded to 5 members total. I have been browsing Piper Lances and A36's. I would love an A36 but I just don't think I can afford the buy in for it, so that leaves me with a Lance. I want something that's reasonably fast like my H35. What is there to lookout for on the Lances? The T-tail seems like a better value. Do the Lances have a removable glare shield like the bonanzas with the speed slope windshields?



We had N999M before 408T. The Lance is a 145-150kt plane at best from what I recall.


WJG


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 23:12 
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Joined: 11/29/10
Posts: 1453
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Location: KBJC - Broomfield, CO
Aircraft: H50 Twin Bonanza
Username Protected wrote:
Michael,

Someone with actual experience needs to share with you the slow flight/landing characteristics of the T-tail models. I would only be repeating what I've heard from owners. I haven't had the pleasure to fly one myself.

It may be why they are a little cheaper.....


I was partner in a T-Tail Lance before it was lost. Sad story

Pluses:
Roomy - Holds a ton of stuff
Passengers Plane
155kt airplane (which was a step up from my Skymaster)

Minuses:
Glides like a manhole cover
Handles like a dump truck
Climbs like a pig when light and a bigger pig when heavy
Don't let it get slow on final
Seriously. DO NOT let it get slow on final (I can send you the NTSB report
a survivable ugly pancake on the runway and and an uglier fire)

Personal Opinion
Wouldn't own one again. IMHO a T-Tail Lance requires a lot of respect and currency.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2016, 23:33 
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Joined: 02/26/13
Posts: 1373
Post Likes: +441
Location: KSEF
Aircraft: Be-24 Beech Sierra
Flew the Lance up in Kotzebue Alaska, loved it. The speed was okay 145 kt's do not recall burning 14 per hr I think I was burning 12 GPH. Great airplane. Carried everything the villagers needed, lots of weight dirt runways it was fun to fly very low above the tundra on the empty legs. I wouldn't mind having one now, or maybe the two engine version Seneca.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 16:33 
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 2126
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
What about a Seneca II, III or later?

I owned one for 9 years. It does all the good things a Lance does, plus it can be had with FIKI, plus the good things that come with multiengine redundancy, ie, two sources of electrical and pneumatic power and of course thrust. It is about as an easy to handle twin as there is out there. Also, being turbocharged, it can fly to FL250 and it will hold 13k feet on a single engine.

I never found it difficult to fly. I trained annually in it going through all the usual engine out exercises. It was very benign.

The aircraft didn't eat me out of house and home either. All in all, they are good transportation.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2016, 16:45 
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Joined: 03/11/12
Posts: 165
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I had a 76 Seneca 11 for 10 years and 1,400 hours. I was a great plane. Very benign single engine handling with counterrotating engines and a vmc of 66 kts. 13,000 single engine ceiling. My wife loved the room and back door for easy entry and exit. I figured 165 kts at 22 gph but that was before we (I anyway) knew about lean of peak.


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