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07 Dec 2019, 13:12 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 18:06 
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Joined: 07/15/11
Posts: 3739
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Location: Owensboro, KY (KOWB)
Aircraft: 1957 Bonanza H35
Does the Lycoming engine have hot start problems? What's the procedure for hot starting these?


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 19:17 
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Joined: 05/04/11
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Location: Covington, GA
Aircraft: 421C
They start fine when hot with proper procedure. My hot start procedure with my lance was no prime, mixture rich, crack the throttle, start. Started after 3 or 4 blades.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 19:19 
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Posts: 1373
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Location: KSEF
Aircraft: Be-24 Beech Sierra
Username Protected wrote:
Does the Lycoming engine have hot start problems? What's the procedure for hot starting these?


Yes it does! the fuel injected engines have the spider (fuel distributor) on top, so it get hot and fuel turned to vapor.

What I do is when its bad:

Full throtle mixture rich
Fuel pump on till the fuel flow needle moves.
throttle full forward
Mixture idle cut off
Crank,,,,,,,,
When the mixture in the cylinders falls to its optimal it will ignite
Fast!!!!,,, mixture to full rich and throttle to idle.

Normally for first try ,, just throttle to full,,, mixture to cut off,, crank... 9 of 10 it will catch, again mixture full rich and throttle to idle.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 19:44 
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Joined: 09/04/09
Posts: 5614
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Company: Leading Edge Aviation
Location: Doylestown, PA (KDYL)
Aircraft: 1979 Baron 58P
Username Protected wrote:
Does the Lycoming engine have hot start problems? What's the procedure for hot starting these?

I have found Lycs to be a little easier than Continentals.
If you set the throttle at 1000 at shutdown, the restart is easy... don't touch anything. Hit the starter, and in a few blades it will start, wait for it to start to die from lack of fuel, and advance the mixture and you are done. If by chance you miss it, prime normally , reset the controls to where they were at shutdown, and try it again.

_________________
Rick Witt
Baron 58P & King Air B200 GTO
Leading Edge Aviation
Doylestown, PA
& Destin, FL


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2016, 22:45 
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Joined: 08/01/11
Posts: 4290
Post Likes: +1114
Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
Any zero fuel weights or landing weights?

_________________
Fly High,

Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2016, 00:52 
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 9538
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Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Aircraft: in storage
Yes, the pa32 is one of very few piston singles with a ZFW. Doesn't come into play much though.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2016, 14:26 
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 2127
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Username Protected wrote:
I had a 76 Seneca 11 for 10 years and 1,400 hours. I was a great plane. Very benign single engine handling with counterrotating engines and a vmc of 66 kts. 13,000 single engine ceiling. My wife loved the room and back door for easy entry and exit. I figured 165 kts at 22 gph but that was before we (I anyway) knew about lean of peak.


I ran at 65% power on long trips and in the low-mid teens, would get 175-180kts true on 20gph. If you don't mind oxygen, that's where the plane really shines. On short trips, I'd pull the props down to 2000 rpm and 50% power at about 16 gph and 150kts around 8k feet.

Decided I didn't need the seats and went with the Columbia - which trounces everything I've ever flown on miles-per-gallon and speed. But the Seneca II was good transportation.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2016, 14:00 
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Joined: 10/13/14
Posts: 83
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Aircraft: PA32RT-300
About 3 years ago, my wife told me she wanted me to buy a plane. Yes, I am a very lucky man. We looked at a few different planes and she liked a Cherokee Six the best for its room, six seats and baggage space. I wanted something a bit faster and started to look at Lance and Saratoga models. I have owned a T-tail Lance for the past two and one half years.
It will carry about 1300 lbs. With the stabilator up out of the way a car can be parked just a few feet away from the rear doors for loading. I carry a small single step stool to help passengers get in the back of the plane. No problems for my parents, Dad is 91 and Mom is 84, to get in the back seats. Last year I used it to move my son home from college.
The previous owner had almost every speed mod your could put on a Lance installed including LoPresti, Knots 2 U and Laminar Flow Systems. He also removed anything that was sticking out in the slipstream such as extra antennas and automatic gear extention probe. He even had the fuel cap tabs removed. With a 180 gallon ferry tank installed he flew the plane to Hawaii were it was based for several years. The STC for the return flight shows a flight plan from Honolulu to Las Vegas. A trip of 2400 nm!
My Lance is heavy on the controls but very responsive to fly with excellent x-wind landing manners. The CG has the biggest effect on the planes handling. Two people and full fuel will put the plane out the forward CG limit. I normally carry 8 gallons of water in the rear baggage area and use 25 degrees of flaps if no passengers are in the back for landing. Lots of right rudder is required at rotation, even more with a left crosswind and a bit less with a right crosswind.
Flying off grass is not an issue. Climb performance is very good. I have seen 1,500 fpm on a cool day with just me on board and full power. I normally cruise climb at 75% power @ 16 - 18 gph and see 400 to 700 fpm depending on load and temperature. My normal cruise is 160-165 knots @ 13-13.5 gph depending on weight and CG.
As others have noted, be careful of the neglected ones and most have old avionics.
I feel that cheapest way to improve the plane's handling and performance is by installing Hoerner wing tips and control surface gap seals but I have not flow an unmodified Lance or Saratoga to verify this.
Since this forum likes pictures I will include a few, including last Tuesday's trip to MQY.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2016, 15:35 
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Joined: 07/15/11
Posts: 3739
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Location: Owensboro, KY (KOWB)
Aircraft: 1957 Bonanza H35
I went to look at my first lance yesterday and sat in it. It is roomy in the front. It doesn't have near the visibility the bo has. The rear most seats are comfy but I wouldn't want someone my size sitting across from me facing me. There would be no leg room. It would work nicely for my family of five although I have not flown one yet. I would have to do that. Coming home I was making 164kts across the ground on 11.2 GPH in my bo.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2016, 12:54 
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Joined: 12/29/14
Posts: 4502
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
That's why I bought a lance over a Bo.


If you are in the area, shoot me a PM and we can go fly.

Username Protected wrote:
I went to look at my first lance yesterday and sat in it. It is roomy in the front. It doesn't have near the visibility the bo has. The rear most seats are comfy but I wouldn't want someone my size sitting across from me facing me. There would be no leg room. It would work nicely for my family of five although I have not flown one yet. I would have to do that. Coming home I was making 164kts across the ground on 11.2 GPH in my bo.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Lance Questions
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 21:25 
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Posts: 1509
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Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
OK, Mike, it's my turn. I actually own a T-tail Lance currently and will give you the "facts".

Similar to you, I came from a Debonair (which I sold right here on BT) before I purchased the Lance II. I have owned it for 3+ years now. Like you, my boys were (are) growing fast and we quickly ran out of useful load in the Deb. My considerations when shopping for a six-seater were the big 3: C210, A36, and P32R (Lance or Saratoga).

I am sure that the C210 is a fine plane, but it felt small to me, particularly in the back. We make several long trips a year, and I just wasn't feeling it in the Cessna.

The A36's that I could afford were typically high engine and/or airframe time and all needed avionics to boot. I do enjoy the feel and the speed of Bonanza, but that comes at a premium.



That left me with the Lance. The one I ended up buying had a fresh major on the engine (10 hours), low time 3-blade prop (400 hours), nice paint, club seating, a functional autopilot, and an IFR enroute GPS. Basically my minimum criteria. What sealed the deal was the Lopresti Cowl. It really makes the plane look modern and adds some knots from what I understand. I wouldn't know because I have only operated this plane with it already installed.

Loading the plane is awesome. It has nearly 1400 lbs of useful and a CG that is very forgiving. There is a front baggage area with a separate door as well as the rear cabin/cargo door that makes easy loading of pretty much anything you want.

Comfort is probably its greatest trait. In most all of the planes I have owned before (Cherokee, Mooney, Deb), the pilot and copilot are rubbing shoulders. Not in this plane. Its enormous in the front seats. The rear seats also have plenty of shoulder room and head room.

Cruise performance is respectable. I generally cruise at 155 kts between 8-10,000 ft burning 16.5 gph. My cylinders are not balanced with a 1.5 gph spread, so I am installing GAMI's this winter. I anticipate 1 gph reduction in fuel burn. Even with this spread, I can run LOP, but I generally do not due to concern over the large spread. I will once GAMI's are on.

Takeoff performance is also of no concern. I have heard all of the talk on the t-tail and its short comings, but I just don't see it. Full disclosure: I have installed every gap seal, fairing, and speed mod available, so maybe a stock Lance II would change my opinion. Fully loaded, I can easily get off the ground in 2000 feet on a hot day and climb between 500-1000 all day long. Taking off in the winter, 1000+ fully loaded and 1500+ lightly loaded is entirely possible. What more do you need?

Landings are also a none event once you get used to the feel. The use of trim during landing is absolutely necessary. When I first began flying the plane, I nearly landed on the nose due to the unexpected back pressure necessary to bring the nose up. Once I got the trim strategy down, landings have been comfortable. I routinely fly into 2500 ft grass strips.

That's my educated opinion on the Lance II. I hope it provides you with some insight. Feel free to PM me and we could exchange numbers if you would like to talk.

Blue Skies,
Jeff



That's pretty.


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