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15 Sep 2019, 22:54 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2016, 11:46 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 3273
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Aircraft: MU-2, G44
I was going to stay out of this because I have nothing but negatives to offer but decided to chime in. I recently ferried a 2007 4 hours, 300lb ish useful load, runway hog, runs hot, burns a ton of gas, slow, bad rate of climb.

I really don't think I could be more negative about an airplane and I love most airplanes.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2016, 14:29 
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Joined: 12/29/14
Posts: 4263
Post Likes: +1939
Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
Username Protected wrote:
I was going to stay out of this because I have nothing but negatives to offer but decided to chime in. I recently ferried a 2007 4 hours, 300lb ish useful load, runway hog, runs hot, burns a ton of gas, slow, bad rate of climb.

I really don't think I could be more negative about an airplane and I love most airplanes.


Perspective is everything. A Bo cannot do what my Lance can. I tried hard to buy one, but, no matter how I loaded it with my heard, it just wouldn't work for us.

Flying solo or plus one, Bo all day and twice on Sunday. Hauling a family, PA32 by a land slide.

Perspective influences choices.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2016, 16:25 
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Aircraft: MU-2, G44
I like the Lance! I'm talking about a really heavy late model TC. It's completely useless as a practical airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2016, 16:34 
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Joined: 12/29/14
Posts: 4263
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
Username Protected wrote:
I like the Lance! I'm talking about a really heavy late model TC. It's completely useless as a practical airplane.


Copy. I don't know anything about birds manufactured before 1980. I'm not successful enough to play in that league. :whiteflag:


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 05 Sep 2016, 19:54 
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Joined: 10/05/09
Posts: 954
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Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
Aircraft: Phenom 100, Extra330
Username Protected wrote:
Michael,

You can probably do better on oxygen if you buy your own large bottle for the hangar and use it to,fill your plane. Many threads here from people in the industry who say O2 is O2 and fill up a big "all year" bottle at a welding shop for less than you're paying for a weekly refill.

I dunno how to change the passengers' behavior, though.


That is what I did when I flew my Turbo Lance. It wasn't very difficult. Spent a few bucks buying the adapters and valve but it paid for itself quickly.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 11 Sep 2016, 19:28 
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Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 39
Post Likes: +27
Location: Coloma, WI
Aircraft: PA32R-300
I sold my Archer II at the beginning of July do to my growing family. I have my wife and four young daughters. I wanted the A36 in the worst way but when I look at how they pack and know that they are all growing, I ended up with a Lance non turbo. I am in flat land and don't really have a need to go over the mountains.

I have agreed upon a price and will be picking up my new to me Lance in about a month. It is set up very well for IFR and looks to be a solid plane plus the useful load is over 1400lbs!!

Matt

_________________
Common sense goes a long ways!!


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2016, 09:25 
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
Username Protected wrote:
I sold my Archer II at the beginning of July do to my growing family. I have my wife and four young daughters. I wanted the A36 in the worst way but when I look at how they pack and know that they are all growing, I ended up with a Lance non turbo. I am in flat land and don't really have a need to go over the mountains.

I have agreed upon a price and will be picking up my new to me Lance in about a month. It is set up very well for IFR and looks to be a solid plane plus the useful load is over 1400lbs!!

Matt



Our dilemma appears to be in parallel. 3 kids, wife, bags, full fuel. A Bo was only momentarily an option till the CG was done.

As a side note, I had my plane weighed and discovered my useful load was about 70 less than what was advertised in WB sheet. A little irritating, but wouldn't have stopped the purchase. Not saying you need to weigh your plane, but unless it's bone stock, I would try to scrutinize the books to ensure that UL is accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2016, 10:16 
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Joined: 11/03/08
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Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Aircraft: in storage
the turbo updraft saratoga has an oven in between the cabin and engine that can cook eggs. Lopresti makes an aftermarket cowl that turns the oven into a broiler.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2016, 10:36 
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Joined: 12/29/14
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
Thursday price tag was less than savory for my lance. I believe it was $12k and added 10kts.

The intercooler would be nice, but man, that's rich.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2016, 12:34 
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Joined: 05/13/14
Posts: 4909
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: '78 Bonanza A36
Username Protected wrote:
I sold my Archer II at the beginning of July do to my growing family. I have my wife and four young daughters. I wanted the A36 in the worst way but when I look at how they pack and know that they are all growing, I ended up with a Lance non turbo. I am in flat land and don't really have a need to go over the mountains.

I have agreed upon a price and will be picking up my new to me Lance in about a month. It is set up very well for IFR and looks to be a solid plane plus the useful load is over 1400lbs!!

Great choice Matt. You really get a lot of luggage space with the noise and behind the third row. If your kids are like mine, the most critical system in the airplane is the pilot isolate switch on the audio panel. :tape:


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 12 Sep 2016, 20:20 
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Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1447
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Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Pardon the thread drift, but how do you like the T-tail? Is yours intercooled? Does that really matter?[/quote]


It wants plenty of runway and heavy on the controls at approach speeds. I keep it at 85 it's over the fence and land about 80. It's not intercooled. Still has the fishbowl mouth.

There is a lot of value in the T tails. It's not a short strip plane though. Anything under 2500 and I'm concerned. At gross, I'd be very concerned.[/quote]


T tails look cool. Flies a bit piggish. Not a climber or a short field bird. Great cabin. That's about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2016, 05:45 
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Joined: 12/29/14
Posts: 4263
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Location: Brunswick, Ga
Aircraft: PA32RT-300T
I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 13 Sep 2016, 23:35 
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Joined: 09/28/13
Posts: 805
Post Likes: +180
Company: M & W Associates, Inc.
Location: Centerville, TN KGHM
Aircraft: 1982 58P
Load the Lance II to the rear as much as possible. It helps a lot. If alone put 100 lbs or so in baggage compartment. The lance is a load hauler. I love the A36. I just sold mine for the same reasons the OP mentioned. The Lance will never make you look back at it when walking away but it does take care of business. We (Dad and I) have owned a 77 Lance, 82 Toga and he now has a 98 Toga TC. The 82 was non turbo with a/c but still hauled around 1250 UL. It was probably the best of the three when considering everything. The 98 is a nice plane but the useful is only 1040 and it's hard to lean it much under 18 GPH. Not useful for my family of four at all. Perfect for my retired parents, though. I just can't get past the way the Beech products fly. I went from the 82 Toga to a F33A then A36 and now a 58P. Dad had a C340 in there between the 82 toga and his 98. If you like to spend all your money at the airport buy a 340 :D


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2016, 19:40 
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Joined: 08/15/11
Posts: 1218
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Location: Mandan, ND
Aircraft: C90, 200
So..this is thread drift, but if you want the cabin of a Toga, but want more useful load, why not a Seneca III? 170kts on 26 gph


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Saratoga Turbo
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2016, 20:49 
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Joined: 09/28/13
Posts: 805
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Company: M & W Associates, Inc.
Location: Centerville, TN KGHM
Aircraft: 1982 58P
In my experience very little utility gained when you consider the extra fuel burned. Seneca is an ok plane bit the engines aren't exactly the toyotas of airplane engines. Does the III have the absolute controller or is that the IV when that started? That would be a big plus with regards to the tsio-360.


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