18 Apr 2024, 03:58 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
|
Username Protected |
Message |
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 18 Aug 2016, 23:39 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/09/13 Posts: 1911 Post Likes: +926 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
|
|
Username Protected wrote: OK. So, problem solved. Auto land doesn't find the runway, or tune the radios, or put the flaps out, drop the gear,set the speed, keep plane from rolling off runway. You can SP just about any plane. During training or a type ride your FO could take a dump and you need to demonstrate the ability to get the plane on the ground. Just not as safe as having qualified help in the cockpit.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 01:20 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 02/10/12 Posts: 1321 Post Likes: +213 Location: Albuquerque,NM KAEG
Aircraft: 1991 AA F33A 550R
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The Chinese have bought Continental, Superior, Cirrus, Mooney, and Brantley. Maybe jets are next? And that's really sad.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 05:09 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Best thing that could happen to it if it was bought out by some sort of owner or interest group. Those are always the best solutions. That's what happened with Aerostar and Turbo Commanders - owned by people that love them and fly them, so the service and dedication to product is impeccable. Problem with business aviation is that those owners are corporations that have very little brand loyalty. A flight department doesn't care if it's a Learjet or a Embraer as longs as it meets their finial needs. But I would suggest that the very worst thing that could happen to Learjet would by a type of owner like Textron, who's only in it to bolster corporate coffers. The vampire approach - suck the body dry and then leave the carcass when it's all over and move on the next. Adam, not sure whether an owner group would be the right way at this time. Let's face it, the whole industry, while not really in a downturn, at least not in the US or Europe, is moving "sideways" at the moment in regards to airplanes sold and produced. However such times are the perfect times to invest… Now with their present offerings the 70 /75 Learjet has a very good product, albeit in a market segment that looks a bit crowded nowadays. However exactly that market segment may be the first one to start climbing up again. And an independent Learjet could sensibly resize the company, they have excellent locations in Wichita, lots of aerospace talent available. I would be confident that with the right structure and size, excellent product support and good sales & marketing they could be up again pretty soon to deliver, let's say 40 - 50 Lear 70/75s a year. That should be a good basis for further developments. Plus the support of the Learjet legacy fleet should provide a decent income too. It is an excellent brandname, a great history with dedicated professionals backing it. Should Bombardier decide to sell it I would be confident that a competent investor could revive it very successfully. All they would have to do is focus, focus. focus on that ONE name and product: Learjet…. just my take… and building and selling good airplanes is "real economy"..much more sustainable than that "finance economy"…so if you have US investors who are conservative and want some "real economy" then nobody would have to be afraid that some state enterprise from China for instance buys it..
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 05:30 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/09/13 Posts: 911 Post Likes: +449 Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Auto land doesn't find the runway, or tune the radios, or put the flaps out, drop the gear,set the speed, keep plane from rolling off runway. That's what pibot is for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGEaOg0l_KAAndrew.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 07:06 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
|
|
Username Protected wrote: OK. So, problem solved. Auto land doesn't find the runway, or tune the radios, or put the flaps out, drop the gear,set the speed, keep plane from rolling off runway. You can SP just about any plane. During training or a type ride your FO could take a dump and you need to demonstrate the ability to get the plane on the ground. Just not as safe as having qualified help in the cockpit. Still not seeing how this is a problem in a Gulfstream but not in a Pilatus.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 07:23 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 03/01/14 Posts: 2152 Post Likes: +1640 Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
|
|
The last Learjet was the 31 based on the 35 or the 60 based on the 55. Bombardier went into experimentation and pasted Learjet on their 40/45. I doubt that we're going to see another real Lear.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 07:55 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
|
|
Username Protected wrote: The last Learjet was the 31 based on the 35 or the 60 based on the 55. Bombardier went into experimentation and pasted Learjet on their 40/45. I doubt that we're going to see another real Lear. well not so sure about that…sure the 40/45/70/75 systems-wise ( Hydraulics and others) went a tiny bit towards some Challenger philosophies..versus the 30 series and 50 and 60..series however for me it still is very much recognizable as a Learjet…and not a bad one at that.. ( the irony maybe that the real "father" of the original Canadair Challenger design, at least from it's first concepts in design was none other than good old Bill Lear…) that here from 2013… [youtube]https://youtu.be/qIKeEHwL_xI[/youtube]
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 12:43 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/09/13 Posts: 1911 Post Likes: +926 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
|
|
Username Protected wrote: Auto land doesn't find the runway, or tune the radios, or put the flaps out, drop the gear,set the speed, keep plane from rolling off runway.
You can SP just about any plane. During training or a type ride your FO could take a dump and you need to demonstrate the ability to get the plane on the ground.
Just not as safe as having qualified help in the cockpit.
Still not seeing how this is a problem in a Gulfstream but not in a Pilatus.
I think you are referring to the SP part.
The Gulfstream has more systems that are more complex.
If you have a problem you will be busier in Gulfstream than you would be in a Pilatus.
SP is Doable just more difficult and riskier.
When SP there is a much greater chance of you creating a problem that was not there.
With a qualified crew much of the value comes from backing each other up.
With that said I like flying SP with my commander, mostly because it eliminates hassles at the destination.
That's more of an owners view than a straight pilot view.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 15:53 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
|
|
Username Protected wrote: I think you are referring to the SP part.
I'm referring to the "take a dump" part. Only Gulfstream pilots take a dump?
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 16:38 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/16/12 Posts: 610 Post Likes: +279 Location: London
Aircraft: TC690A
|
|
All this thread is doing for me is to prompt me to have more conversations with folks who know the Learjets than I already was and the reverence one finds for them is quite impressive, almost cultish, in a good way.
It seems like if you are in the (luxurious) position of being able to consider an aircraft from the pilot's perspective, as opposed to the normal reality, that the comfort of the passengers comes first, then you might think the true Learjets are insanely great airplanes. I'm already "shopping" for one, myself (the same way I "shopped" for an Aston Martin V8 Vantage Volante as a kid in high school, with little credibility of ever being a buyer)... For the day I have some more hours of experience and may be game for taking on a jet. I've been an ignorant non-pilot passenger in many of he private jets and the Lears were not my favorite... I'm getting it now, though.
Dealing with some similar issues with my Commander, where it's clear there might have been better options for the passengers, but what the heck, this airplane is a blast to fly (and terribly efficient)...
Edited to clarify my "shopping" for Learjet.
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 17:39 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 11/09/13 Posts: 1911 Post Likes: +926 Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
|
|
I agree completely. I have a little time in the old Lears and I really liked flying them.
My commander reminds me a lot of the Lears. Particularly in the handling and the seating position.
My family preferred flying in the king air 250 but there was no choice for me.
The commander wins hands down from the left seat.
There was an outfit that tried to make the old Lears SP.
Never able to pull it off. Too bad
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 19 Aug 2016, 17:51 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/28/13 Posts: 1107 Post Likes: +291 Location: Salzburg, Austria
Aircraft: PA-18
|
|
well, but in regards to passenger comfort…
the 55 and also the 60 are excellent in my opinion...
|
|
Top |
|
Username Protected
|
Post subject: Re: The Future of Learjet? Posted: 20 Aug 2016, 02:12 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: 06/09/09 Posts: 4573 Post Likes: +3298
Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
|
|
With the Lear series of privates jets being among the first there is a certain nostalgia for them.
They are good in the climb, very average in the cruise and short on range with a pretty cramped cabin.
|
|
Top |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us
BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a
forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include
the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner,
Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.
BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates.
Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.
Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024
|
|
|
|