I've recently found myself dreaming of big, cheap, cabin class twins. I am in no position to buy right now, and I'm not about to tire-kick someone with an actual plane for sale. I feel these planes are not talked about as much as the Baron/310 and I'd like to hear some of their strong points. We don't need another plane, but I think one might fall into my lap if I keep looking casually over the next 3-4 years. I want to know what to look for and what to expect.

My needs and worries about airplanes in general are quite a bit different than most of yours as you'll soon find out if you bear with me, but you guys have the knowledge to set me straight on a lot of the little details.

So here are the big item bullet points:

1. I'm an IA, dad is a MEI/CFII and we both LOVE unique airplanes. We've got a stable that is pretty full with the old Bonanza, Sukhoi 26M, and Zlin 526F, but there is always room for more! The hangar in Salem has a 49-1/2'W x 12-1/2'H door opening. In Cynthiana, KY where I am based I have access to a 45' wide x 18' tall hangar or I can go over to Georgetown and get in a 120'x120' community hangar.

2. I have a big family. I'm one of 5 kids, and we are stretching my mom and dad pretty thin with their new grandkids popping up like weeds between Lexington, KY, Kokomo, IN and Chicago. My parents are in Salem, IN just north of Louisville. My brother is in the Navy flying at NAS Whidbey Island, but someday might make it back over to the Midwest in a few years. He is another pilot to keep all the engines well oiled. My youngest brother still needs to finish up his PPL, but life is certainly in the way and preventing any work on that for the time being.

I keep thinking that a great compliment to the Bo would be a real six seater. My family is big. Most of us are over 6' and 200lb... we are all family, but the idea of rubbing shoulders and banging knees in all 6 locations flying at gross doesn't sound fun. So cabin size is important, and an airstair entrance would make all the women happy. We do take a family vacation to St. George Island, FL but even that is only 550nm, and we also love going up to OSH.

3. No turbo or superchargers: Since most flights will be 250nm or less, cruise speed is less important. This also means that I'd prefer NA planes for simplicity since we won't see the benefits for 90% of our flights and I don't want to keep it operational.

4. Short field capabilities. I83 is currently 2700'x50'. 0I8 is 3800'x75' I have friends on 2500' grass strips I'd want to be able to easily visit. F47 is 3300'x65'

5. Budget: this plane is a want... not a need. I will happily wait years or never buy. I'm not spending over $75k... Depending on the plane I may not be willing to spend $40k. does that make sense? I will wait for the best bang for the buck or deal of the century.

So, since I've never seen a Commander in person, but know of their reputation for being a great flying plane and very airliner-like, and also the Twin Bonanza's tank-like dependability, help me out with the specifics like real world cruise numbers and fuel flows, altitudes that are good to cruise at, maintenance issues (remember I'm free!). From my basic observations, these are both 170kt planes with the Commander 500 having a bit lower fuel burn?

I'm trying to avoid walking into a maintenance nightmare* for myself while still securing a cool old twin that might otherwise be destined for a junkyard. I don't mind putting a new interior in, avionics, etc as time goes on.

* maintenance nightmare means the airplane won't fly or run properly and I spend months and months chasing issues instead of clouds. I don't mind a session or two of this, but after some initial "tune-up" work, I want a mechanically sound airplane I have confidence in.

Donald - a 500B is bulletproof. It's probably the best Commander they built. Simple systems, reliable and a big cabin. They retain their value for good reason. That said, on a really short field, the geared 560's and 680's do shine. They're also cheaper to get into, but the geared engines and maintenance of these will cost a bit more.

Don't know anything about the T-Bones so can't really compare, sorry.

So is the Commander 560's geared engine the same GO-480 that is in the majority of NA T-Bones? I guess that model should be considered too.

If I recall correctly, someone here said "there are no cheap T-bones. None."

Same can be said for Commanders. Once you get past that, it's all good. I flew 2,000 nm over the weekend in my version of the T-Bone, a 500B.

Gregg C. THE T-Bone guy is putting his B50 on the market and it is all sorted out by an expert so I think it would be more fly than fix. I would bet the cost will be reasonable as well.

I don't think there is any way that a NA T-Bone is going to actually be a 170 knot airplane. It is probably a 160 knot plane in the eyes of an optimist, or someone who has access to the company fuel card.

As far as big people go, I think the general consensus on the Twin Bonanza is that while the airstair is really neat and adds a lot of "ramp appeal", it is not the most elegant solution if the people occupying the front two seats are above average in size. The over-wing door seems to have more fans in that situation.

Pretty much across the board on the 560's and 680's is the GO-480. The odd one out is the 560F that has a rare IGO-540 (think it's the only aircraft that came with that engine). It's a NA geared Lycoming. The 560F has great short field performance and range.

I am not planning on any "free-lunches"... I know that I'll be investing a fair amount of sweat equity on anything I buy. Our current fleet keeps me busy, and I'm not scared of digging into a project with good bones, but it's gotta be a flying airplane. I don't have the time to fully resurrect something too far gone.

The GO-480 T bones are honest 160kt airplanes on 24-28 GPH. They will do 170kts at 75% power and 40gph. Book says 205 mph, mine clocked 174 true the only time I ever tried it. 10 extra knots are not worth the fuel.
75k will by a pretty good Tbone
I gross out at 230 am old and stiff and had no trouble getting in the front seats with the airstair entry. Much easier than in my Duke.

These are two of my favorites. But it seems like the Commanders sell for a lot more - the good ones are over 400k.

A great Tbone can be found for much much less. And I'm sorry but they are crazy cheap, so whoever said there are no cheap Tbones is wrong.

How important is anti ice to you? I live in Vermont so for me it's s big consideration. I currently have a V35 with TKS.

I'm a big fan of the T-Bone but few are available with boots. The 500 can be fitted with FIKI TKS.

I'm not worried about any sort of de-ice or anti-ice. Any substantial weather would always be avoided. If it's calling for widespread ice we won't fly that day... Waiting 24hrs is worth it for us. Plus we don't do much winter flying. Probably let the plane ride out the worst months in the hangar getting its annual. Along with all the other planes.

I've been teetering between Barons, Commanders, Cirrus , and TwinBo.. I'm all over the board but open to the right deal at the right time... What do you think of this for the price?

http://www.controller.com/listings/airc ... ander-500b

Are Spar inspections a thing to be dealt with regularly? I've heard spar issues on these aircraft can be major.. I think my wife would love a commander like this ( cirrus is her last choice at the moment ) , just don't want to get into the MX nightmare of spar repair or turning it into a beer can..

Sean - sent you PM, but will post here for posterity too.

There is no spar AD for the 500B's prior to 1966. That's when they introduced the Shrike - the 500S and U models - and changed from Normal Category to Utility Category. In order to meet higher G load certification, they used a stainless steel spar strap to beef the wing up. That's what caused the dissimilar corrosion between the alu and stainless. So they later Shrikes all have the AD that needs either spar strap replacement STC (most of them have had this done), or an inspection every 36 months. On the 500B, you're good to go. No need for anything! Only thing they do is an Eddy current inspection every 500hrs or so above 6000hrs (can't recall exactly), but that's like 3hrs of work - a non issue.

They're sturdy - John Towner in Ohio runs his 30 night freight 500B's to over 20000hrs and has for decades.

That plane looks nice but is under contract. No radar or place for one as it sits. Then you get into the details. I have a 500B with nicer equipment which I would trade for a Shrike as I'd like the later model plane with front door, etc.

With proper advice, the spar cap inspection is one of the lowest risk inspections you can do. They have a 25 year history doing that inspection which means it's probably been done 9 times. If done by a quality shop I know, I can be confident. If done by Joe-shiz-the-Ragman, start over or walk away. In my everyday experience, the spar is predictable cost of doing business but just not guaranteed.

Like Adam said, 500A/B or replaced cap 500U/S planes are not affected by the expense of recurring compliance inspections every 36 months (clean spar).