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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2016, 22:55 
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Yeah that sure is Code 1's Race 8 - their modified L-39 which they just raced at Reno. Looks like a landing runway over-run.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=190338


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2016, 22:55 
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My Iskra had an "open" operating limitation. It was pre-moratorium so i could fly anywhere in the USA with no letter needed. It was one of the reasons I bought it instead of the newer imports.

As for G-Forces, when I had the jet I was 27 and could handle sustained 6 G maneuvers with no problem. The occasional 9 G was also tolerable, but only for a few seconds. I never liked negative G's. At 45 years old today I have a hard time with more than 4Gs.

Where you can get into trouble is in rapid descents. I would routinely descend at 20-25k per minute and at that rate the ground comes up quickly. You have to plan the pullout early and be able to handle Gs. You better also react without hesitation to leveling the wings before pulling out of a dive. A spiral can tighten faster than you can react putting you into a 10G position that will take you out quickly.

Like I said, it was fun for a while, but what I figured out that I did everything I could possibly do in the plane short of killing myself. I knew that day was coming and sold the plane instead.

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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2016, 00:00 
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Zeke, Just remember there are no points for second place, when you pull up to O S H do you want to park in the back 40 or up with the big balls. Jet drivers don't frighten camp.
Are you here to win or just get along

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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2016, 10:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
Yeah that sure is Code 1's Race 8 - their modified L-39 which they just raced at Reno. Looks like a landing runway over-run.

Ok - got to get my story straight - this plane was sponsored by Code 1 at Reno this year - it is not owned by them. This is the L-39 Phil Fogg won the Jet Class race at Reno in 2014 - Phil has retired from racing. This year it was flown by Sean Cushing of Virginia Beach - he came in 2nd this time. I don't know who was flying when it ran from the end of the runway. Over at CrashTalk someone mentioned the pilot had two prior incidents in the last few months involving a Baron and a Stearman. This needs to be verified though.


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2016, 16:02 
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Didn't see flaps extended, Was it landing or a T-O problem?

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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2016, 17:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
Didn't see flaps extended, Was it landing or a T-O problem?

ASN says Runway excursion on landing. Crashed into woods. The pilot was not injured.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=190338


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2016, 19:05 
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Username Protected wrote:
Over at CrashTalk someone mentioned the pilot had two prior incidents in the last few months involving a Baron and a Stearman. This needs to be verified though.

It was one incident involving two airplanes owned by the same individual (Baron and Stearman).


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2016, 00:22 
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Alex,

We have continued our research into the L-39. My putative partner in the plane (Dennis) only has 860 hours so he is focusing on getting to the 1,000 hour minimum required for a jet LOA. So we're not in a rush.

Dennis and I both spoke extensively with Code 1 Aviation at Oshkosh. And we each took a demo flight in the plane. We also spoke with several current operators and got their take on operating costs. With the caveats listed below, we both think the plane is easy to fly (it was a trainer) and a LOT of fun. Whether we pull the trigger is still to be determined.

After giving him an honest assessment of my flying skills, I asked the DPE who would conduct the LOA ride how much training until we would be proficient for the ride. He said 5-7 flights (of approximately 1.2 hours each). Dennis and I are both comfortable/proficient upside down already though neither of us would describe ourselves as experts. True, this is limited to piston aircraft (Marchetti 260, Great Lakes, Decathlon). But we're good with inverted spins, situational awareness on snap rolls, etc.

There are clearly scenarios where the L-39 can be dangerous. For example a suspected engine failure immediately take-off recently killed a very experienced L-39 driver, and low level acro gets dangerous quickly as well. We can't control the first (other than good maintenance) but strict rules about minimum entry altitudes can address the second. I asked a group of L-39 pilots how their peers were killing themselves and they all said "low level acro."

Acquisition and operating costs were the next topic. It looks like a basic airframe is $75K and then you add engine life. Overhaul is about $220K, real world engine ife is 1,000 hours. Then you add spiffy paint and avionics.

If you buy a sound airframe, the basic Annual is about $10K-$12K and you can budget whatever for ongoing systems upgrades or overhauls. This year do xxx and next year do yyy on an ongoing upgrade plan.

All operators said it was a gas and go jet. Average is 130-200 gallons per hour - depending on stage lengths.

Would love to hear if anyone has feedback on this info.

Thanks, Zeke


PM me. I've owned and operated several EEj jets including the L-29. Iskra and S-211 for the past 12 years. I've owned my L-39 for 6 years and have > 500 hours in it.

There's SO much mis-information on these jets that it's mind numbing ... matched only by the Duke ;)

-Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2016, 09:12 
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Kevin,

PM sent.

Zeke


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 27 Sep 2016, 23:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
PM me. I've owned and operated several EEj jets including the L-29. Iskra and S-211 for the past 12 years. I've owned my L-39 for 6 years and have > 500 hours in it.

There's SO much mis-information on these jets that it's mind numbing ... matched only by the Duke ;)


Kevin,

Are you by chance going to the upcoming Jet Blast in St. George, Utah? (October 13-16)


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2016, 16:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
PM me. I've owned and operated several EEj jets including the L-29. Iskra and S-211 for the past 12 years. I've owned my L-39 for 6 years and have > 500 hours in it.

There's SO much mis-information on these jets that it's mind numbing ... matched only by the Duke ;)


Kevin,

Are you by chance going to the upcoming Jet Blast in St. George, Utah? (October 13-16)


Hi Chris,

Unfortunately I won't be able to make it this year.

-Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2016, 09:49 
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Myself and a few other fighter pilot buddies once had the opportunity to fly and possibly get checked out in the L-39. Unfortunately it never happened.

However, our chief concern as we dug into the prospect was the egress system, or lack there of. If I'm not mistaken, no L-39s in the US are permitted to have an active ejection seat. The ones we were getting involved with did not.

It's not that they didn't have a hot seat (like what we are used to in fighters) it's that egress from the L-39 is nearly impossible in flight, and when on the ground the canopy still weighs a significant amount of weight and opening it was cumbersome. Factor in a survivable crash and injury, getting trapped in the cockpit is a real concern.

Something to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2016, 21:53 
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When I flew single seat jets for a living, the most boring thing going was a single jet sortie. Toodling around in circles in a jet gets pretty mundane pretty fast. They are also deceptively easy to fly, until they aren't.

I think Todd's assessment was spot on. Rent for a while. The new will wear off quick.

Lack of hot seats is also an issue, as mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2016, 01:15 
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This website has a listing of L-39 ejections. It appears, ejection seats are available to US operators and many have them with the improved VS-2 model being the preferred model according to Code 1. The "survivability" and statistics, though, appear to be pretty grim though.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/Airc ... s_AERO.htm


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 Post subject: Re: L-39 Operators?
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2019, 22:32 
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Well - I just stumbled across this thread searching for something else and I thought I would provide an update.

In the immortal words of Brittany Spears... Oops, I did it again. My friend and I bought an L-39 last April through Code 1 Aviation. There was standard little stuff we wanted done so we took delivery in late June. Some training and a checkride with the DPE and I flew it home alone in late June. We have had a ball!

We now have about 60 hours on it and it has gone exactly as expected. Fuel burn is as expected - a lot. We true 365 KTAS at 250 on 150 GPH. Below 18000 is worse. We have larger than standard fuel tanks so we’re good for about 600 NM legs. There has been only one surprise - we got a fuel filter light in cruise last week so we diverted into Norfolk on a late Sunday afternoon. No mechanic available until Monday morning at 7:30 a.m. By 9:35 a.m. we had the item fully resolved and were on our way. Service and support from Code 1 has been outstanding.

Next week it goes back to Code 1 for the condition inspection and a spiffy glass panel. That will be fun.

Our jet has been in the US since the late 90s. So it has the old style operating limitations. Because the 39 is such a known quantity, the FAA now has a standard set of Ops Limits they issue for all new applications. Our geographic limit is the lower 48 US. We have runway take-off and landing requirements that push us to 5000 foot runways - but otherwise we have pretty open specifications. The usual restriction about flight over congested areas applies.

The community of other 39 operators as been terrific. At Osh, at a recurrent traiining event in Valdosta, and I look forward to more.

We plan to get proper formation training in the plane - so that will allow another layer of interest and challenge.

As I re-read this thread I appreciated the various comments and contributions made by others. Todd had some good points as did others.

Alex, jump on in. The water is perfect.

Zeke


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