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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 24 Sep 2016, 20:27 
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Plus there is lots of ex-GE executives at Textron and they likely have deep relationships within GE.

Username Protected wrote:
However GE is looking for 20% improvement in fuel flow. You are not going to get that via one or two tweaks. Further, GE has put in a 400 Million investment to take on PWC in the turboprop space. This investment is substantial enough to give Cessna confidence, plus GE has the engineering capability and manufacturing plant to pull it off. Combined with how well the H80 is kicking the PT6 on spec comparison. For example about 1/3 of the way down this page from a few years ago you see the H80 consumes less fuel with more power: http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/turbo ... hrush-510g

At the end of the day, GE has a huge service network, technical muscle, and money that Cessna could have some confidence in them. Further, fuel efficiency matters even more now. Not just from a fuel burn cost perspective, but more importantly from a range perspective.
And for a conservative company like Cessna to pick GE, the performance had to be significantly ahead of the PT6 equivalent to make the gamble worth it.


Tim

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 25 Sep 2016, 00:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
From my source, that new upgraded PT6 is already flying.
Expect announcement pretty soon. Your going to be very impressed I got told.

Pratt is spending $400m per year in R&D.


I'm with Marc on this one.......Spear, GE ain't the only one with a 'wonder engine' on the way :D

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2016, 15:22 
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Pratt is about to launch a new more powerful and efficient Fadec line of turboprop that will put to shame that paper GE engine.

It wouldn't surprise me to see this new Cessna Denali with this Pratt engine because GE cant deliver on time.

Watch Pilatus bring out a new more efficient PC12 with this new Pratt engine that will blow performance of the paper Cessna Denali.


Source?
New engines take a long time to develop. GE has been working on these engines for a few years publicly, no idea how long privately.

Tim


The current "GE" engine has been flying for many years. The basic design was built by Walter and has thousands of hours in the duster market. GE is taking that initial design concept and refining the design in such a way to effectively create a new engine. It will be interesting to see if they keep the slinger ring feature as that is the most significant element that makes the engine superior to its P&W counterparts.
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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 15 May 2017, 08:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
From my source, that new upgraded PT6 is already flying.
Expect announcement pretty soon. Your going to be very impressed I got told.

Pratt is spending $400m per year in R&D.


Any news on Denali or new PT6 upgrade?

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 22 May 2017, 18:00 
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Username Protected wrote:

Source?
New engines take a long time to develop. GE has been working on these engines for a few years publicly, no idea how long privately.

Tim


The current "GE" engine has been flying for many years. The basic design was built by Walter and has thousands of hours in the duster market. GE is taking that initial design concept and refining the design in such a way to effectively create a new engine. It will be interesting to see if they keep the slinger ring feature as that is the most significant element that makes the engine superior to its P&W counterparts.


I spoke with some Cessna technical guys at the textron owner conference last month and they insist the Denali's engine isn't related to the walter/h85.

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 22 May 2017, 18:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
I spoke with some Cessna technical guys at the textron owner conference last month and they insist the Denali's engine isn't related to the walter/h85.


That's not something I would publicize if I was Textron.


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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 15:11 
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That's not something I would publicize if I was Textron.

Really? I know the Walter has a good reputation as does the PT-6 but let's face it both are 50+ year old designs right? GE has a long history of making turbine engines and I would want to be promoting a clean sheet engine with better fuel efficiency, better longevity, etc rather than a warmed over version of an old design.

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 18:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
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That's not something I would publicize if I was Textron.

Really? I know the Walter has a good reputation as does the PT-6 but let's face it both are 50+ year old designs right? GE has a long history of making turbine engines and I would want to be promoting a clean sheet engine with better fuel efficiency, better longevity, etc rather than a warmed over version of an old design.


For a new single ?

One of the reasons for the success of TBM and PC12 is the conservative engine choice. It's one thing to find out about the teething problems of a clean sheet design if you have a spare, it's something else if it is the only one you have.


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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 18:53 
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I'm confident enough data has been collected over the years and computer modeling is good enough that GE can come up with a winner first try.


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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 20:09 
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Yeah I think GE will produce a fine new engine. With anything new though, there are always unintended results. Sometimes they take a while to surface too.

I'd be more confident with a PT-6 on it, why reinvent the wheel here?

It really is a Pilatus with a different name on the side. Just strap a bigger PT-6 on it and go.

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 20:11 
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But if the engine is key to delivering 20% efficiency and 15 knots more cruising speed than the Pilatus then they have to do it.

As an American, I hope they succeed!

AG

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 20:32 
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two uninformed pilots


Sounds like typical pilots..... :hide:
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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 20:57 
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Same here. I would not buy a new airframe with an unproven engine.

Lets wait for 1,000,000 hrs.

:shrug:

It will be hard for Cessna to wait for that new engine if the airframe is ready and the engine is not?

Im sure Pratt as a -67 ready for them.




Username Protected wrote:
Yeah I think GE will produce a fine new engine. With anything new though, there are always unintended results. Sometimes they take a while to surface too.

I'd be more confident with a PT-6 on it, why reinvent the wheel here?

It really is a Pilatus with a different name on the side. Just strap a bigger PT-6 on it and go.

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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 22:07 
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Airbus sells the EC135 with either Pratt or Aeromeca engines. Commercial aircraft are available with RR and GE engines per customer spec. It would improve their products chances in the market if they provided a proven engine option. This is not like the Hondajet where you have two of the new engines.


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 Post subject: Re: CESSNA DENALI SINGLE ENGINE TURBOPROP
PostPosted: 23 May 2017, 22:36 
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Depending on the unit price, were I Textron, it would seem a reasonable chance to take. It's not like GE is some VC startup with no engine or manufacturing experience.

Personally, I like the new market entry and I have no doubt you will soon have to choose between the unproven GE and the rumored unproven new Pratt for your new turboprop needs.

What a boring world it would be if nobody ever took a chance.

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