Hi everyone!

Just curious to get some thoughts, given that Epic has delivered two of the certified E1000s last month, how does the E1000 compare to the TBMs and PC12?

I mean, looking at the specs alone it seems like a killer. Are they cutting any corners to achieve those specs? It's a hybrid between (close to) the speed of the TBM, and the load capacity + take off / landing strip distance of the PC12, at the lower-end price of such aircrafts.

Am I missing something?

I don't think you are. I've got an eye on the SETP market and the Epic looks like a great deal. Engineering (especially aeronautical engineering) is all about compromises. Pilatus went for load carrying and short runways. TBM went for speed. Epic splits the difference and is lower priced because they're new to the market. The epic will burn more fuel than the PC-12 or the TBM, but I'd speculate that it's about the same as the PC-12 on a per mile basis.

They just got their certification late last year, so these are the very first models. Don't ever buy a 1.0 anything. Wait for at least 1.1. In my case. I'll be a turbine buyer when something I really want is about 10 years old, all the quirks are well known and the major depreciation hits have already been taken.

Epic looks like a great bird. I’m on my second TBM. For my mission.....it’s damn near perfect.

Get an insurance quote

The Epic is a great airplane. Seen both the cabin and cockpit mockups at Oshkosh. Very nice. It’s still $3 mm so it isn’t cheap, and they haven’t yet received their production type certificate, which means that each airplane built has to individually be certified by the FAA as I understand it. They won’t produce in any volume until that hurdle is cleared which I would assume will be sometime this year.

The PC12 carries a lot more people and stuff but if a TBM or Piper M600 suits your mission, it’s worth a look.

A couple issues to be mindful of: 1) autopilot is the Genesis 2100, not Garmin or the newer 3100, 2) no 5-blade prop is yet approved for it, 3) they don’t yet have a training network or a service center network, 4) it’s not clear how the company is financially set up for long term customer care just yet and finally ...

5) Insurance is an issue. To my knowledge, only two companies are writing policies for owner-pilots of the Epic. Hopefully that will change, but with a $3 mm price tag and only 2 companies in that market, expect some expensive strings for the insurance. Definitely check that before writing a deposit check.

But I would sure like the extra speed, FL340 and trailing link landing gear in my M600! It’s a very cool plane for sure.

Joel, like you I think the epic is an intriguing airframe. Sure has some nice performance numbers. When you buy something with seven figures, you are buying the company as well. In this volatile economy, long-term stability is important. They only make one niche product for a very small segment of society. The only companies right now surviving inlight aviation, are those that have diversified. Whether it’s Diamond 20/40/42/62, Piper multiple, Cessna multiple, Pilatus PC6/9/12/24, Daher TBM 7/8/9/Kodiak, or Cirrus SR20/22/SF50 they all rely on multiple products to Weather the storms. The tarmac is littered with good ideas, but even some really good ideas like Eclipse can become somewhat orphaned. I wish them luck, but personally I would not bet my own money on their survival.

I couldn't agree more with Chuck. As far as I'm concerned support and stability of the company means everything. I wish Epic all the luck in the world. It certainly is a cool airplane and they've come a long way but bringing a new airplane to market is a huge undertaking. Many have made it to or come close to the finish line only to fail. I'd only invest in an Epic if my income was $1,000,000 a month plus and I had plenty of money to "play" with. Hope you're in that category!

One wonders if one could learn from the Eclipse experience and Escrow the detailed design
information for all of the components, so if eclipse fails the stranded owners could have a shot at maintaining their airplanes.

The escrow would only become active if the primary entity failed to deliver support...

Paul
The former chief engineer of Eclipse has formed a support company for the Eclipse.

His companies name is Resurgent Air Solutions and he is also producing STC’s to improve the airplane. So what ever happens with Eclipse the owners should be in a decent position

Unless that one guy gets hit by a bus or served a divorce decree, thats a lot of hopes on one set of shoulders

A Garmin STC for the eclipse would be game changing.

Surprised there isn't a pilot door on the Epic

I guess it would be nice, but it's a littler wider and almost a foot taller than a TBM. Not as big of deal to walk up front.

Eclipse has been "working" on that, at least conceptually, for a while. Would replace the Avio panel with G1000. I think the Eclipse 700 (aka Canada Project) is designed around a Garmin panel too.

Yeah, I really like the Eclipse airframe, really nice plane. But my heart sank using the avionics. They are OK, but as an owner pilot, I don't want to pay for "OK" Put a GX000 in there, and it would be very nice. The PC12 great airframe, but same low level nausea with the Apex avionics, they are OK, but 5 mil for OK? The Epic, no Garmin AP, which is one of the best things about the Garmin product, which leaves the TBM for me. Or for 1.5 mil less and similar range and payload the M600.