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 Post subject: Real World Range vs Book Range
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:45 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8695
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
I am constantly amazed and disgusted at the amount of inaccurate information about aircraft performance, and range is always the biggest issue.

What is the real world range of your Citation, Pilatus, TBM, Beechjet, Learjet, or King Air?

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Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2


Last edited on 16 May 2016, 11:15, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 12:49 
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
Describe your world - winds, ISA, VFR, IFR, distance to alternates?

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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 13:01 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
I'm thinking "day in and day out" range, in other words I can fly Brand X 1200nm with reserves most of the time.

Example: The Premier IA is a 900 - 1000nm airplane day in and out, maybe 1100 on a good day with light load.

I recently had a client tell me he wanted a Premier IA, my response was wait, you said you didn't want a Beechjet because of range, so why the Premier?

He says the Premier has 1680nm range... :bang: friggin' Wikipedia.

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Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 13:12 
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Joined: 01/31/09
Posts: 5193
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Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
1200 nm; 1500 nm to good VFR destination; less to low IFR with far alternate; into a 30kt headwind.

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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 13:20 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8695
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
What a great airplane. I have a client who wants a Bravo, we talked to Cessna yesterday about CJ2+, I'd like to see him move up, a much better investment.

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Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 14:21 
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Joined: 06/09/09
Posts: 4438
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
VFR destination and PD climb/descent 2220 nm if restricted to FL280. That is the book number and it is closer to real world than any model I've seen to date.


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 15:46 
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Joined: 08/08/12
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I have generally considered the aircraft I was flying by the hour vs. nm. Too many variables. A standard top it off and fly, I can do 3:45 without thinking, roughly 1000nm. If I want that next 30/45 minutes, I have to do a little work.


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 12 May 2016, 23:09 
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Joined: 03/03/11
Posts: 2079
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Solitaire appears to be 1400nm in no wind assuming unrestricted climbs and descents.


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 00:01 
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Joined: 08/09/11
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Company: Naples Jet Center
Location: KAPF KPIA
Aircraft: EMB500 AC95 AEST
Username Protected wrote:
I have generally considered the aircraft I was flying by the hour vs. nm. Too many variables. A standard top it off and fly, I can do 3:45 without thinking, roughly 1000nm. If I want that next 30/45 minutes, I have to do a little work.


Agree this simplifies life. Some days it makes the brochure look honest, some not so much.


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 00:19 
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Joined: 01/07/13
Posts: 1209
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Company: Tupelo Aero, Inc
Location: Pontotoc , MS (22M)
Aircraft: 1959 Twin Beech 18
Username Protected wrote:
I am constantly amazed and disgusted at the amount of inaccurate information about aircraft performance, and range is always the biggest issue.

What is the real world range of your Citation, Pilatus, TBM, Beechjet, Learjet, or King Air?


Your customer and Mike C. Read it on the internet how could it be WRONG? :bow: :bow: : :lol:

:duck: :duck: :duck: :duck:

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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 13:36 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Username Protected wrote:
Read it on the internet how could it be WRONG?

Versus heard it word of mouth from a 3rd party... How could that possibly go wrong?

Written - even on the internet - is typically of better quality than word of mouth. Especially if people write down the assumptions and conditions.

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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 14:08 
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Joined: 08/16/15
Posts: 2931
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Location: Portland, OR
Aircraft: Prusinski'ing
Username Protected wrote:
I'm thinking "day in and day out" range, in other words I can fly Brand X 1200nm with reserves most of the time.

Example: The Premier IA is a 900 - 1000nm airplane day in and out, maybe 1100 on a good day with light load.

I recently had a client tell me he wanted a Premier IA, my response was wait, you said you didn't want a Beechjet because of range, so why the Premier?

He says the Premier has 1680nm range... :bang: friggin' Wikipedia.


You know Wikipedia is editable/correctable, right?


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 18:02 
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Joined: 10/05/09
Posts: 1176
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Location: Charleston, SC (KJZI)
Aircraft: Phenom 300, Bell 505
The Phenom 100 is a 900-1100nm airplane with 600lb reserves.


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 18:16 
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Joined: 11/09/13
Posts: 1910
Post Likes: +927
Location: KCMA
Aircraft: Aero Commander 980
My Aero Commander can go 5.5hrs and have a hours worth of fuel on arrival.

Typical cruise speed is 300kts so say 1650nm range.

Not quite sure what altitude people are using to figure their reserve fuel time?

I am using low altitude fuel burn.

I am very conservative and normally like a 5 hour leg (1500nm) and 1.5 Hr fuel remaining.

Maybe that will change with time.


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 Post subject: Re: Real World Range vs Book Range aka Chip's pet peeve
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 23:07 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8695
Post Likes: +11280
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
980 Commander is one of the best airplanes ever built!!!

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Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2


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