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27 Feb 2020, 21:43 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
Another area of skepticism for me on this project is the price/parts list: http://www.raptor-aircraft.com/ordering.html

This list includes 62 parts. Obviously many of them are assemblies or collections of parts, but it still seems radically simple relative to any other high performance aircraft.

What are they missing?

The pricing for individual parts/assemblies they do list seems reasonable to me. Whether there is $46k of markup in those parts that they can shave off is questionable.


It is obviously the deal of a the century. They are giving away labor and substantially discounting all parts. The best part is they are not making a profit. This looks too good to be true... :eek: :eek: Remember, limit two per person. DON'T GET GREEDY.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
I have a new business plan...sell dollar bills for $0.95. I can grow this business rapidly. I believe. How do I make money? Cost control.


I would like to place an initial order for 10,000.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:22 
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There's room both in my mission and my hangar for this airplane. It'll fit between the Terrafugia and the supersonic BD-10!


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:23 
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Aircraft: MU-2B-26, N305DS
Quote:
A high speed cruise using about 230hp will get you about 190 kias or 285 ktas burning about 11gph

230 HP on 11 GPH is 0.32 lbs/hp/hr.

Moves it out of the impossible category into the difficult but possible category.

190 KCAS yielding 285 KTAS is an altitude of 26,200 ft.

They will not get 285 KTAS on 230 HP.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:23 
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Location: Lake Marion, SC KOGB
Aircraft: B60 Duke
I have driven several European diesels near wide open on the autobahns for extended periods. 2-3 hrs. The did not seem unhappy. Most of these were turbo diesels.
At 120mph plus, I get more worried about the tires than the engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:24 
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While I think the "investor's" specs are pure fantasy, the notion of a much wider and pressurized cabin is very appealing.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
But the optimist is hoping that they get close.

The gap between the numbers and reality indicates a company who is so far off that there is no realistic hope they ever produce anything. Just another in a long string of cabin mockups that will be trucked to Oshkosh never to be heard from again.

This is a day dream with a web site.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
But the optimist is hoping that they get close.

The gap between the numbers and reality indicates a company who is so far off that there is no realistic hope they ever produce anything. Just another in a long string of cabin mockups that will be trucked to Oshkosh never to be heard from again.

This is a day dream with a web site.

Mike C.



You forgot fantastic website design and beautiful 3D renderings of all aspects of the airplane.
Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:45 
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Company: Bystronic
Location: Pinehurst, NC (KSOP)
Aircraft: 1965 Bonanza S35
Username Protected wrote:
But the optimist is hoping that they get close.

The gap between the numbers and reality indicates a company who is so far off that there is no realistic hope they ever produce anything. Just another in a long string of cabin mockups that will be trucked to Oshkosh never to be heard from again.

This is a day dream with a web site.

Mike C.



Gotta admit that this one made me laugh out loud. :lol:



So, all kidding aside here, the question I have is this...

Usually when someone misses the mark, as much as you're inferring here, it's usually because of 1 or 2 things...

1. Either the data being analyzed is inaccurate / corrupt

or

2. The analysis is flawed.


If you watch this guys video, he's using some computer model, inputting data from the Cirrus, as some sort of baseline, and then comparing the Raptor's spec's to this.

He then seems to do an extrapolation, based off of the conclusion that the Raptor has an airframe that has a drag that is only 85% of the Cirrus, or 15% less drag.


Are you saying that, with this supposed 15% drag reduction that the Audi engine cannot propel the aircraft at these speeds?

Or are you saying that he's misinterpreting the data and that he is not achieving the claimed reduction in drag?
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"TRUTH is AUTHORITY..... Authority is not Truth"


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:53 
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It looks to me like the Raptor designer is smoking crack.

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Bobby Southard


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 11:56 
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No they are just planning on making the aircraft out of Unobtainium. That will make it exceed the design specs.

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In memory of the victims of the Dictatorship


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 12:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
Are you saying that, with this supposed 15% drag reduction that the Audi engine cannot propel the aircraft at these speeds?

15% less drag, if achieved, means I am using 85% power at the same speed. Now if I use the extra power and speed up, I only go 5% faster because speed goes up as the cube root of power.

Quote:
Or are you saying that he's misinterpreting the data and that he is not achieving the claimed reduction in drag?

Very likely as well. Lots of drag comes from things he is not accounting for, like antennas, air intakes, air exhaust, stability/certification requirements, etc.

Ain't nobody going 300 knots in a 300 HP 5 place pressurize airplane.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 12:19 
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Lots of laws around raising money from unsophisticated investors but these guys are far enough out there that maybe, just like the laws of physics, they have chosen to ignore them - SEC doesn't tend to get involved until investors squawk and the companies are usually gone at that point. I'd bet on this or a family money.

Marketing and exuberance go a long way towards raising money, but in the end, if they don't have something to fall back they will hit the wall - hard.

I'm with Don, this will put a bad mark on aviation. Eclipse did the same thing and they had good leadership (I knew Vern), a great team and excellent funding. They missed the mark but not by nearly as much as this one is going to miss.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 12:32 
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Joined: 01/31/09
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Aircraft: Citation CJ2+;C510
Username Protected wrote:
Lots of laws around raising money from unsophisticated investors but these guys are far enough out there that maybe, just like the laws of physics, they have chosen to ignore them - SEC doesn't tend to get involved until investors squawk and the companies are usually gone at that point. I'd bet on this or a family money.


I don't see where they are asking for investment money.

I see where they are asking for refundable deposits and that falls under the CFTC. They are having that money deposited in escrow.com. They don't touch the money or get any use of it.

Very different situation then the way Eclipse handled customer deposits.

To me it looks like a local EAA chapter experimental project in watching the build.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 13 May 2016, 12:33 
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Company: D&M Leasing
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: Citation 501sp
I can't wait for this plane to hit the market. It'll probably be ready inside of a year. No wonder the SF50 project is taking so long and behind schedule. With the Raptor soon to be available, who would buy an SF50? Jet speed, jet altitude (kind of), Honda Civic economy and Boeing range for $100k!!!


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