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14 Aug 2020, 18:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


MRM (Honeywell)



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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 13:53 
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Joined: 05/13/14
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: '78 Bonanza A36
Latest video showcases the landing gear mechanism. It's not confidence inspiring.

Interior shots of the fuselage show what appears to be schedule 40 pvc conduit. Take the idea of experimental to a new level.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 15:07 
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What will be the end of this?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 17:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
What will be the end of this?


1) Bankruptcy
2) Crash
3) All of the above


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 17:38 
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You guys know that this thread needs to go for at least another year. So, I bet it flies, doesn't prove any performance goals. Assuming it doesn't crash or show any weird flight characteristics....then, he will make some salesman's pitch video about how the weight isn't an issue. He can easily get it down 1000#. He's got several "ideas" how to improve it. That everyone with escrows needs to be on board. People will talk about how much he has overcome and release another $2.5 million of funds to him. Then, we get to see him go straight into a production model while redesigning the thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2020, 17:41 
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The test pilot will be the one ending this project.
One way or another.
Hopefully only by making safety concerns.

And not by reading his name on a NTSB report.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 11:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
The test pilot will be the one ending this project.
One way or another.
Hopefully only by making safety concerns.

And not by reading his name on a NTSB report.

Anyone else think the test pilots have been dribbling out concerns piecemeal hoping the builder will just throw in the towel eventually?

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It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 11:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
What will be the end of this?


1) Bankruptcy
2) Crash
3) All of the above


1) Bankruptcy
2) Crash
3) YouTube revenue dries up
4) All of the above
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 12:00 
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I haven't paid close enough attention... has this thing been weighed along the way? Every "fix" seems to be adding a ton of weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 12:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
The test pilot will be the one ending this project.
One way or another.
Hopefully only by making safety concerns.

And not by reading his name on a NTSB report.

Anyone else think the test pilots have been dribbling out concerns piecemeal hoping the builder will just throw in the towel eventually?


I don’t know what the financial arrangement is between them, but the thought did cross my mind that they may have no intention of ever flying that plane and are simply stringing him along collecting fees and wracking up expenses.

I sure hope than isn’t the case as I wouldn’t view that as ethical. As much as I condemn some of Peter’s actions and his taking money from backers, I can’t condone taking advantage of him.

Hopefully they just didn’t do their homework upfront, walked into this blind, and keep finding issues they weren’t aware about previously.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 12:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
I haven't paid close enough attention... has this thing been weighed along the way? Every "fix" seems to be adding a ton of weight.


Yes, and unsurprisingly, the empty weight is approaching gross weight. Don’t worry though, he can fix that by fabricating a couple more metal brackets.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 12:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don’t know what the financial arrangement is between them, but the thought did cross my mind that they may have no intention of ever flying that plane and are simply stringing him along collecting fees and wracking up expenses.

I sure hope than isn’t the case as I wouldn’t view that as ethical. As much as I condemn some of Peter’s actions and his taking money from backers, I can’t condone taking advantage of him.

Hopefully they just didn’t do their homework upfront, walked into this blind, and keep finding issues they weren’t aware about previously.


Assuming I did not lose track, the test pilots hired have a very good reputation in the experimental world; so I doubt this kind of behavior would be accepted.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 13:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
I don’t know what the financial arrangement is between them, but the thought did cross my mind that they may have no intention of ever flying that plane and are simply stringing him along collecting fees and wracking up expenses.

I sure hope than isn’t the case as I wouldn’t view that as ethical. As much as I condemn some of Peter’s actions and his taking money from backers, I can’t condone taking advantage of him.

Hopefully they just didn’t do their homework upfront, walked into this blind, and keep finding issues they weren’t aware about previously.


Assuming I did not lose track, the test pilots hired have a very good reputation in the experimental world; so I doubt this kind of behavior would be accepted.

Tim


Their knowledge, experience, and reputations to date, as far as I can tell are impeccable. I was just surprised that someone with their qualifications would have agreed to work with Peter, and after inspecting the plane, twice now, didn’t end it already. I guess they didn’t/don’t watch his videos.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 01 Jul 2020, 15:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Anyone else think the test pilots have been dribbling out concerns piecemeal hoping the builder will just throw in the towel eventually?


I don’t know what the financial arrangement is between them, but the thought did cross my mind that they may have no intention of ever flying that plane and are simply stringing him along collecting fees and wracking up expenses.

I sure hope than isn’t the case as I wouldn’t view that as ethical. As much as I condemn some of Peter’s actions and his taking money from backers, I can’t condone taking advantage of him.

Hopefully they just didn’t do their homework upfront, walked into this blind, and keep finding issues they weren’t aware about previously.

I wasn't thinking of this as a "milking for money" issue but rather a "We don't want to fly this thing but don't want to be responsible for ending the project themselves" kind of thing.
_________________
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It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2020, 09:01 
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Control cable tensions are 180 pounds.

That’s so high.

Any guesses on landing speed?

I say it’s gonna rival space shuttle landing speeds.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2020, 10:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
Any guesses on landing speed?

No need to guess, the numbers are easy for anyone to find. The website says the stats are
Max gross: 3,800lbs
Wing area: 167 sq.ft.

Let's say the finished product is a real porker at 5,000lbs and use 1.3 for max coefficient of lift* and use VREF = VS × 1.3

Math says 5,000lbs + 167sq.ft. + CL1.3 = 82 knots stall speed

Multiply VS × 1.3 to get VREF = 107 knots


:shrug:

That's fast for a single but nothing special in the big scheme of things. If we use the suggested max gross weight then the numbers come out to 72 and 93. Sorry to sound like a wet blanket.

If he wants the stall speed to be "61 knots" then that airfoil is going to need a lot of attention.



* 1.3 is a reasonable, conservative number. 1.5 is average for a flapless airfoil a GA airplane, so take away a bit for this being a slightly swept wing on a canard airplane (canard means the main wing will typically never see critical AoA and slightly swept means it won't make quite as much peak lift)


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