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26 Feb 2020, 03:31 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 12:10 
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID
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Username Protected wrote:
sleeving the aileron cables and doing away with the pulleys is just dumb founding. I could overlook alot of what he has done and chalk it up to just trial and error. But this move is just flat going to kill someone at some point if it ever does fly. Clearly he has no concept of control systems and needs to listen to someone besides his own inner thoughts.


I thought that cable sleeving/pulley delete was at the suggestion of the Wasabi guys?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 12:40 
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Sleeved cables are fine for engine controls and such. I don't think I've ever seen it used for a flight control cable. It moves too much and as I'm finding out on my Duke, if it gets crimped AT ALL, it'll lock up tighter than a drum and won't move.

It would have to be BULLETPROOF in how it was routed and mounted where NOTHING would EVER touch the sleeving.

Ever.

Otherwise it's a death trap.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 13:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
Sleeved cables are fine for engine controls and such. I don't think I've ever seen it used for a flight control cable.

Yep, I've only seen it used for a trim tab, but never a primary flight control.*

With all the different, conventional ways to actuate a (primary) fight control but choosing something so unconventional, this is a really bizarre design decision. I'm scratching my head about the supposed net benefit and I'm coming up with nothing.


edit: * reading below, I realize I forgot the obvious example of Bonanza family electric flaps (including Baron/Travel Air/etc.), although wing flaps aren't primary[/i] flight controls[/i]


Last edited on 17 Jan 2020, 14:02, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 13:19 
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Location: Washington, OK
Aircraft: Cherokee 180C
Username Protected wrote:
sleeving the aileron cables and doing away with the pulleys is just dumb founding. I could overlook alot of what he has done and chalk it up to just trial and error. But this move is just flat going to kill someone at some point if it ever does fly. Clearly he has no concept of control systems and needs to listen to someone besides his own inner thoughts.


I thought that cable sleeving/pulley delete was at the suggestion of the Wasabi guys?

I can't imagine wasabi suggestion that, but I could be wrong.
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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 13:43 
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID
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Username Protected wrote:
I can't imagine wasabi suggestion that, but I could be wrong.


Hope you are correct. The question mark on my post was there in hopes that someone could easily provide proof otherwise. Maybe it was just implied, in my head, in that Wasabi inspected the thing, found issue with aileron authority and then he started into the sleeved cables.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 13:58 
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Aircraft: 89 A36 TN, 78 Tiger
Sleeved cables is fine for a short run.
But this is nuts.... Way too far... It will never work. Plus it has so many chances of seizing, which would make for an interesting flight...
This is a really bad idea. Plus the more tension you will add, the more friction you introduce when you have bends.
Cable and pulleys work just fine, if executed properly.
I think that his problem is tension, and movement on each pulleys. The pulleys need to be secured. As well he could add springs to assist on the tension.
But those cables in sleeves are a bad option for this application.
It is fine for a trim tab, or flaps. But not for ailerons.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 16:19 
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I believe Jabiru uses push-pull cables for ailerons

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 17 Jan 2020, 17:01 
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Bonanza flaps aren't really sleeved cables in this sense - the cables spin in the sleeve, and all the motion happens at the flap in the helical-screw actuator. The cables aren't attached to the flaps, aren't in tension, and the actuator to flap distance is inches.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 09:42 
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How about friction and fraying - these are bare galvanized sleeves.

Crazy.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 09:48 
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Watching this guy come up with fixes reminds me of a Feherty quote:

"like watching a drunk chasing a balloon near the edge of a cliff"


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 10:44 
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Seareys use this exact cable for the throttle. If you barely touch the sleeve with a pair of pliers, the entire cable seizes. This airplane is terrifying. I really think it would be a gift from God if it catches fire on the ramp and doesn't hurt anyone or anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 11:10 
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Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
He posted a video last night showing how much the cable sleeves are flexing and noting that it's not an acceptable fix.

I think he's getting frustrated.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 11:56 
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Location: Lake Marion, SC KOGB
Aircraft: B60 Duke
My boat uses sleeved cables for the rudder. Best i can tell there is less free play than a cable /pulley system.
However they are pull,only, two cables to the rudder bar.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 13:23 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
Aircraft: 1970 Baron B55
Username Protected wrote:
My boat uses sleeved cables for the rudder. Best i can tell there is less free play than a cable /pulley system.
However they are pull,only, two cables to the rudder bar.

You can remove almost all of the slop by using two cables, at the expense of more friction and more wear. Also in most boats the consequence of a small amount of looseness or springiness is minor compared to the potential for flutter of an aircraft control surface.

And I'd bet that the steering cable on your boat has a much larger diameter than what was used on the Raptor.

In any case, critical systems like aircraft control linkages are no place for "cut and try" solutions.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2020, 17:40 
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Location: Pleasanton , TX (KPEZ)
Aircraft: 1963 Bonanza P35
Peter does seem frustrated in the video from yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boLj9cU ... e=emb_logo

For those who don't watch the videos I think I understood him to say he may move to a fly by wire set up because the current set up has few good options moving foward. I am starting to sense some real get their itus with Peter. He just wants this thing to fly and it sounds like it needs to fly now. My guess is he is out of money or running on fumes and needs this thing to fly so he can get more funds to continue the project.


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