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25 Sep 2020, 19:46 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 12:53 
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This is crazy....
This is not an RV that you can throw around... This is actually a lot of weight and when this much mass goes to a certain speed, things take life of their own.
The way that the whole thing move is very disturbing.
When those parts get into resonance.... it is not going to be pretty.
He had a good look at reality on that last run.
When that bird gets air born things will be interesting to say the least.


The other thing that concerned me was the use of bonding agents at structural joints. I’m no composites engineer but putting glue without structure on things like the bearings that carry the weight of the landing gear seems like a bad idea. That and there are so many wear items bonded into place on this plane that there is little to no provision for future ease of maintenance. Look at how well binding critical structure went with the Mooney M10 project ...


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 12:59 
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Those wings seem really flimsy for a 2 ton aircraft. It's amazing that he hasn't been concerned about that roll moment. The way that thing bounces around, I would have thought he was doing high speed taxing on a plowed field. Trying to bail out of a pusher is not going to be a fun thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 13:33 
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Build a guard over the prop like a fan boat....

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 14:35 
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Username Protected wrote:

He needs to spend 100 hours in an older Bobcat skid-steer before he flies that thing!


I logged some time in an old Bobcat Farmboy 440b, and never did get to the point where I could operate it smoothly!

You gots to have rythm

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 15:03 
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This is not going to end well for him.
Laws of nature do have some hard lessons/consequences attached to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 16:46 
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In that video, particularly the portion showing the main landing gear attach points and associated bulkhead structure, I found so many glaring safety-of-flight issues that I have to believe this aircraft is doomed unless the builder gets some intensive assistance from an experienced builder/maintainer. If I can see that many things wrong in a few seconds of video I shudder to think of the other deficiencies that weren't visible.

Still, the powerplant and prop seem to be working reasonably well as acceleration was brisk.

I fear that inadequate investigation into aero-elasticity may have catastrophic effects once airborne.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 17:52 
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Username Protected wrote:
This is crazy....
This is not an RV that you can throw around... This is actually a lot of weight and when this much mass goes to a certain speed, things take life of their own.
The way that the whole thing move is very disturbing.
When those parts get into resonance.... it is not going to be pretty.
He had a good look at reality on that last run.
When that bird gets air born things will be interesting to say the least.


The other thing that concerned me was the use of bonding agents at structural joints. I’m no composites engineer but putting glue without structure on things like the bearings that carry the weight of the landing gear seems like a bad idea. That and there are so many wear items bonded into place on this plane that there is little to no provision for future ease of maintenance. Look at how well binding critical structure went with the Mooney M10 project ...


He said what happened was equivalent to 20 hard landings. I really don’t want to see stuff breaking from just 20 hard landings. There’s just so many things wrong with this project.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 17:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
He said what happened was equivalent to 20 hard landings. I really don’t want to see stuff breaking from just 20 hard landings.


I think that was his point... I believe he was equating each bounce to a hard landing, and if 20 of those broke the landing gear, it needs to be improved.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 18:03 
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the local flight school citabria will see 20 hard landings an hour


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 18:06 
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In that video, particularly the portion showing the main landing gear attach points and associated bulkhead structure, I found so many glaring safety-of-flight issues that I have to believe this aircraft is doomed unless the builder gets some intensive assistance from an experienced builder/maintainer. If I can see that many things wrong in a few seconds of video I shudder to think of the other deficiencies that weren't visible.

Still, the powerplant and prop seem to be working reasonably well as acceleration was brisk.

I fear that inadequate investigation into aero-elasticity may have catastrophic effects once airborne.


What were the specific issues you noticed?

Rather than the piling on in many of these posts, this thread could be informative. It sounds like you could start us off.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 19:55 
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I have been and will continue to support and root for Peter, but really this is getting out of hand. So it looks like he is adding another 10-12lbs, and still not addressing the slop in the controls. I doubt the next test pilots are going to agree to fly this thing. The project is way over budget, behind schedule and way over weight. I don't see this ending well.

Honestly I can't believe he posts videos like this one. If there has ever been a more transparent builder who allowed the entire world to watch and critique his every mistake I don't know about him.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 22:16 
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I have been and will continue to support and root for Peter, but really this is getting out of hand. So it looks like he is adding another 10-12lbs, and still not addressing the slop in the controls. I doubt the next test pilots are going to agree to fly this thing. The project is way over budget, behind schedule and way over weight. I don't see this ending well.

Honestly I can't believe he posts videos like this one. If there has ever been a more transparent builder who allowed the entire world to watch and critique his every mistake I don't know about him.


No one can say he hides anything for sure. I think I would have just forgotten about posting that video. "I had the flu this week."


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 22:31 
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In that video, particularly the portion showing the main landing gear attach points and associated bulkhead structure, I found so many glaring safety-of-flight issues that I have to believe this aircraft is doomed unless the builder gets some intensive assistance from an experienced builder/maintainer. If I can see that many things wrong in a few seconds of video I shudder to think of the other deficiencies that weren't visible.

Still, the powerplant and prop seem to be working reasonably well as acceleration was brisk.

I fear that inadequate investigation into aero-elasticity may have catastrophic effects once airborne.


What were the specific issues you noticed?

Rather than the piling on in many of these posts, this thread could be informative. It sounds like you could start us off.


Problem 1 - He hasn't listened to any of the experts he has worked with. I think Peter is a very smart guy. But, just like you can't expect the most brilliant surgeon to be able to build an aircraft, you can't take someone that doesn't know aircraft to just build the fastest, most efficient piston aircraft on the first try. I think if someone gave him a $20 million budget and hired a team to work for him and let the team develop what he wanted, hey may have came up with something. This isn't about piling on him. But, his work and design is fair game.

Comments on Homebuiltairplanes forum from Jeff Kerlo.

"I preached the importance of weight consciousness and adamantly voiced concern over all the unnecessary garbage being thrown into the airplane , not to mention one unnecessary oversized extremely heavy passenger side door amongst many other things. Mark did as well. We were both ignored and scoffed at by someone always thinking he knew better . Early on we threw our hands in the air and left it up to the Master Designer and project manager. We sincerely tried to keep it sane to no avail. Our recommendations were always second guessed. You have no idea the second guessing I went through during my efforts in correcting the aero problems discovered with the model.

The models creation was a direct result of my apprehension upon seeing the original design and incidence/decalage settings that made no sense. At this point I respond just as Schultz did in the old Hogans Heroes TV show, " I know nothing" when asked why this or why that. New Motto comes from a little cartoon penguin , "Smile and wave boys,smile and wave".Nuff said".

".. it (the model) exhibited horrendous spiral instability. Wings level to 50+ degree bank angle in three rapid cycles. This occurred when arresting descent and beginning "flare " to establish normal canard approach deck angle before touchdown. First occurrence was quite a surprise".


" The original vertical area concerned me from the onset and flight showed my belief they were inadequate. They were increased significantly in two steps and showed little improvement in stability. I was never a fan of BLENDED WINGLETS( there, I said it too) and suspected significant wrap around flow vertically up the winglet at high AOA , thereby compromising the flow over the winglet. That is when I figured a fence at the inboard point where the radius began should likely help . It arrested the dutch roll tendency, locking in the airplane when rolling into and out of banking. It also, not surprisingly, require adding significant amount of up elevator trim after their addition telling me the wing was now also producing more lift, again no surprise to me, and working harder. I then suggested we do stall testing and he scoffed at that and said everything is fine now , time to build the real one. So all bets are off as to how real articles stall behavior plays out. As I said , I have suggested many required test considerations, only to have them scoffed at. Don't like to throw hands up in the air but what else could/can I do. He thinks he knows it all".


https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/foru ... ost-500778

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 20 Nov 2019, 22:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
No one can say he hides anything for sure.

While I agree that Peter seems downright addicted to posting videos regardless of the level of success he achieves in a given 3-4 day period, the videos of the model flights couple years ago were suspiciously brief, even more so given Jeff's comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2019, 02:53 
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He is fixing things as he goes... :doh:
This is not a soap box derby contest
The minute you get this thing 20' in the air... Small errors will be turned into giant problems.
He may be a very clever person, but this is no joke. His errors in aeronautical building are very big. And he is concerned about autopilot? And actually replaced the servos... :scratch:
The slop in the control surfaces are what produced that purposing on the fast run. He is very lucky that he did not have more speed, or even slightly airborne.
This incident may has scared him enough to maybe save his life. All those fast runs may have incited him to pull up and go around the pattern...
This is not going to end well.
I doubt if he can find a test pilot to fly this thing, at that weight. No test-pilot has a death wish.

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