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27 Feb 2020, 22:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 20:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
What are the qualifications to be a test pilot?

Hours? Years? Obviously time in type isn’t an option?

Aerobatics? Some other training?

Or is it just someone who is crazy enough to take the job?

I ho with crazy


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 20:34 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity,_Inc.
Quote:
In 1992, Velocity introduced the "173", also known as the long wing. This model had a longer wing giving it a lower landing speed. The name was a play on the name of a popular model of Cessna, the Cessna 172, the idea being it is one better. Some flying Velocity planes experienced "deep stall" incidents, where the main wing stalled before the canard causing an unrecoverable stall. After a lengthy investigation, Velocity found and solved the cause of these stalls. The 173 included airfoil modifications that prevented the deep stall.[7] The original kit was also modified to prevent a deep stall, and was now known as the Standard model.

pg11 Sick of “The Deep Stall” Question???
http://www.velocityaircraft.com/views/V1.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 20:48 
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The guy that bought my IV-P was an Air Force test pilot who owned a Velocity. He said that the Velocity would get into a situation where the ailerons reversed in certain slips/ AOAs. He explained it and I forgot the dynamic that caused this but he said it was terrifying (for an F-35 test pilot). Anyone know what I'm talking about here?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 20:59 
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Username Protected wrote:
ailerons reversed in certain slips/ AOAs

https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary ... n+reversal

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/ques ... ersal-work


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 22:44 
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Username Protected wrote:

There is a big difference between the first test flights of the Velocity you built and the flight test program Velocity conducted on the prototype(s) before selling you the kit. If I remember correctly, Velocity actually lost one of the prototypes to a deep stall and had to do some redesign. The Raptor will need a similarly thorough and professional test program if the kit is to ever go into production.


Never implied otherwise. Just offering a datapoint.

And the Velocity that had the deep stall was not “lost”. It flew again.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 11:01 
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Company: Centurion LV
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KSMO
Aircraft: N100L 421C
I had not seen the state of union video he did about the test pilot having major red flags, interesting. It was great to learn the process and how he got to where he is. That video made me like the guy even more.

In regards to single fail point of ECU, that to me seems to be the least of the concerns. A well made ECU like the Motec is very reliable. Those are the preferred ECU for most racing. They take serious abuse and do great.

A single engine aircraft has many single points of failure. That’s just how it is in a single engine aircraft. You want dual systems build a twin.


If I was the test pilot I would be worried about aerodynamics and control. The test pilot will have to be quick thinking as it’s possible to find out about a bad control issue at the absolute worst time.

When I was 9 I helped a neighbor build a Ultra light. Well I guess I really just bugged him and asked a lot of questions, not sure I was much help. Haha
. Anyway he got it mostly done and we went to a large park for him to do some taxi runs, he was not going to get airborn. Something happened and it pitched up and took off, he panicked and over corrected. He slammed into the grass and destroyed the ultra light. He was bloody and broke but alive. I was the first one there and will never forget the look on his face. Horrified and confused. that experience left a mark.

I just hope the test pilot can keep his cool if something goes wrong.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 11:10 
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Your story about the ultralight makes me think about two things:
That may have been in this person‘s first time flying this model of ultralight or flying in ultralight aircraft.
A similar surprise may be awaiting Raptor.

I almost suspect the Raptor aircraft will get airborne quicker than the designer suspects if there is a little wind gust during one of his high speed taxi tests. He keeps tickling the Dragon’s tail.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 12:52 
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from the link above (6 posts) titled
pg11 Sick of “The Deep Stall” Question???
Quote:
There have been four incidents of“deep stall” & one fatality . Here are the facts as explained to me byDuane & Scott:
• 1st deep stall Neil Hunter
• 2nd deep stall Carl Pascarell
• 3rd deep stall Jim Patton
• 4th deep stall Neil Hunter (fatal)Let’s look at each of these four situations.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 13:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
from the link above (6 posts) titled
pg11 Sick of “The Deep Stall” Question???
Quote:
There have been four incidents of“deep stall” & one fatality . Here are the facts as explained to me byDuane & Scott:
• 1st deep stall Neil Hunter
• 2nd deep stall Carl Pascarell
• 3rd deep stall Jim Patton
• 4th deep stall Neil Hunter (fatal)Let’s look at each of these four situations.


2 and 3 were done intentionally over water with a professional test pilot at the controls. The first one happened to be over water by chance. The fourth occurred after a fix was available but not applied to the accident aircraft. The problem was solvable, as most are, but it needed to be identified and then the wings had to be modified.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 13:19 
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from the homebuilt site

"I have yet to see anyone with actual engineering acumen defend the Raptor design... "

"Four re-drive failures to date? On an engine with no more than 60 hours? Predicted by numerous people in this community?"


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 13:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
If the ailerons are a screwed as we think may be possible.. gonna be a short flight...

We need to get to the bottom of this problem?


Why? This ain't our problem.


comments at HB

"I learned to fly on dirt and grass strips, never had ailerons do that.

Your reasoning doesn't fly. "
-----

"Might have a been the nose oscillation or shimmy causing the wing rock. The aileron flop was secondary. Not flopping in latest video."
------

["I'm now working on getting the aircraft to around 82 knots and holding it there for a few seconds. If I can comfortably do that without running out of runway to stop then it will be time to see if I can get the main wheels off the ground for just a second."
-------
"In FAA lingo that is "intent to fly"]

https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/foru ... ost-500262

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 14:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
"Might have a been the nose oscillation or shimmy causing the wing rock. The aileron flop was secondary. Not flopping in latest video."


I worry that if the issue is by the nature of the design (not correctable by rigging or tension), this is exactly the type of situation that can set up a feedback loop that will cause flutter and failure. If the wings rock the ailerons will deflect opposite the deflection? Forget the shimmy, or the fact that the ailerons were bouncing on the ground -- these are only a sign that there could be a fundamental flaw to be addressed, not dismissed.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 14:37 
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Joined: 01/30/09
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Username Protected wrote:
"In FAA lingo that is "intent to fly"
sounds just shy of "intent to die"


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 15:12 
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What I don't understand: in this day and age, even if you're 50+ and you suck at anything remotely close to a computer, get a 20 year old student to do a model of your plane project with Catia, let the sim go for a few hours (that should give you a good hundred thousand runs), and see the results.

You'll know what to expect performance wise, what and where it will break after XX hours, and so on.

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Singham!


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 19:08 
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Company: Water Cleaners
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Username Protected wrote:
What I don't understand: in this day and age, even if you're 50+ and you suck at anything remotely close to a computer, get a 20 year old student to do a model of your plane project with Catia, let the sim go for a few hours (that should give you a good hundred thousand runs), and see the results.

You'll know what to expect performance wise, what and where it will break after XX hours, and so on.


Fun fact... AVERAGE age of the engineers at Nasa during the Apollo program was.....


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