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27 Feb 2020, 23:17 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2019, 23:26 
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also the redrive


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2019, 23:41 
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Username Protected wrote:

This is good. Can you distill it down to the top 3 issues/risks? Help us man. You are obviously bright.


No need for three. If the ailerons have play, the #1 issue is aeroelastic flutter and the #1 risk is the wings ripping off. I can’t put odds on flutter occurring because it is complex, but if it does occur, the odds of catastrophic structural failure are very high.

The Velocity team was concerned enough to redesign their control system as part of an effort to reach Lancair IV speeds and they didn’t have a lot of play to begin with. The Raptor is aiming to go even faster.


Spot on. How to address.. solve?

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2019, 23:42 
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Thank you!! How much load do you put on the surface (weight wise) to get that deflection? Have you measured (or can you as an example) what the deflection is with flight loads? And can someone here tell us what that is? 10lbs? 50lbs? I have no idea. Well.. I have an idea... but no practical knowledge. Anyone? Bueller?


About 20lbs.


Awesome.. can you upload a video showing that so we can reference it and tell the man?

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2019, 23:44 
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Username Protected wrote:

If the ailerons are a screwed as we think may be possible.. gonna be a short flight...

We need to get to the bottom of this problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT_3HUp3ZlU


Loose ailerons and the belt drive are solvable problems with time, money and competent engineering. Peter just needs the patience and good sense to put on the brakes and address them.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2019, 23:50 
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Username Protected wrote:

Spot on. How to address.. solve?


Push rods and torque tubes and solidly anchored connections in place of cables with stretch and pulley mounts with flex. Would have been cheaper and easier earlier in the build, but if it needs fixing, no excuses, pull the wings and get it done.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2019, 23:59 
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Username Protected wrote:

Spot on. How to address.. solve?


Push rods and torque tubes and solidly anchored connections in place of cables with stretch and pulley mounts with flex. Would have been cheaper and easier earlier in the build, but if it needs fixing, no excuses, pull the wings and get it done.


Agreed.

How do we

1.) Prove conclusively this is the issue?

2.) If true convey the message?

First things first.. How can we prove or disprove number 1?

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 00:16 
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My thought seeing the ailerons move has he flexed the wing was that the control cables do not follow the same path as the flexing of the wing. That is, as the wing moves, the cable is getting shorter and longer relative to the aileron attach points. You wouldn't fix that with tension, but by rerouting (if it were the case). A pushrod would have the same problem if its flexible joints did not flex with the wing.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 00:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Agreed.

How do we

1.) Prove conclusively this is the issue?

2.) If true convey the message?

First things first.. How can we prove or disprove number 1?


I would think you really need physical access to the plane to properly diagnose it and “prove”/understand the scope of the issue.

Therefore, you probably need to solve 2) in order to get Peter to agree to 1).


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 00:28 
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Username Protected wrote:
My thought seeing the ailerons move has he flexed the wing was that the control cables do not follow the same path as the flexing of the wing. That is, as the wing moves, the cable is getting shorter and longer relative to the aileron attach points. You wouldn't fix that with tension, but by rerouting (if it were the case). A pushrod would have the same problem if its flexible joints did not flex with the wing.


My initial thought would be torque tube in the wing and push rods in the fuselage. It still needs to be designed and implemented properly as flex and balance issues can still be a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 01:29 
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a reason for delay, rest & refresh
Username Protected wrote:
To get briefly back to the matter of the first flight of the Raptor, one thing that concerns me is the general state of health of Peter, the developer. Having watched a number of his videos over the past few years, one thing I have noticed is that he looks sort of burned out these days. That isn't surprising concerning how hard he is working. He is an intelligent fellow with a heck of a lot of perseverance, but at this stage I think he needs to step back a bit and get some rest, especially if it ends up that he has to do the first couple of test flights.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 01:31 
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The reality check will be when the test pilot arrives in December.

Really, I think he is out of time and money on it. He needs to get it in the air so he can get more investors and/or those escrows.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 01:50 
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can't find the post but comments were about prop clearance concerns..

i heard in one of the vids that ~ 12" of nose up gave ~ 4" of prop clearance, that could easily be explored/determined on the ground not even in motion

redrive comments/concerns started here
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=123165&start=945

viewtopic.php?p=2504480#p2504480

prior comments from a test pilot refusing testing was something about ~ single source for the electrics, any news on that?

whoall was involved in the redrive setup? i did run across info where some parts were sourced but ....i'd like to see detailed info on the whole deal


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 04:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
can't find the post but comments were about prop clearance concerns..

i heard in one of the vids that ~ 12" of nose up gave ~ 4" of prop clearance, that could easily be explored/determined on the ground not even in motion

redrive comments/concerns started here
viewtopic.php?f=49&t=123165&start=945

viewtopic.php?p=2504480#p2504480

prior comments from a test pilot refusing testing was something about ~ single source for the electrics, any news on that?

whoall was involved in the redrive setup? i did run across info where some parts were sourced but ....i'd like to see detailed info on the whole deal


It is Peter's design. As far as the redundancy of the electronics. From this video, it doesn't sound like something he is going to pursue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSAC5EAe2HI

I had forgot about his elevator setup. That one run where he had the nose shoot way up makes you think whether that fowler design is going to cause some unwanted inputs.

He's just trying too much at once in the version 1.0. With so many changes from a typical canard, there was absolutely no reason not to put a proven engine/redrive just to prove the aerodynamics. The TDI and his redrive should have been sitting on a test stand.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 05:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Hey, Chris, one more quick question: why does the headset in your avatar say “esoB?”


Probably the pilot that flies for Kalik Leasing out of Houston........ N153X :coffee: :popcorn:


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2019, 06:32 
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Username Protected wrote:
If the ailerons are a screwed as we think may be possible.. gonna be a short flight...

We need to get to the bottom of this problem?


Why? This ain't our problem.


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