banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 06:01 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 4045 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 ... 270  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 13:29 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 1147
Post Likes: +350
Company: Stanford University
Location: Brentwood, CA - C83
Aircraft: RV12, RV10
Username Protected wrote:
Source? I don't actually think what you said is true.

Note that if you allow E-AB rates to exclude a certain high risk period, we should allow the same for the overall GA average.

It should be noted that the overall GA average includes the E-AB sub category. Overall GA would improve if E-AB accidents are removed from those numbers.

Mike C.

Source...the NTSB and the FAA. You should really read the report. And rather than just make statements, you should try just searching the topic. I get a kick out of how you manage to blow by the whole point of the post. I understand that you don’t like the Raptor, but try to be objective.

Try google for “Safety of experimental aircraft”. You could also read https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-stud ... SS1201.pdf

Additionally, the whole point of Phase 1 testing of experimental aircraft, which is the first 5-40 hours of flight hours, is to overcome the dangers of the first few hours of flight and minimize impact to the safety of others, such as not having passengers and conducting Phase 1 over unpopulated areas. FAA Order 8130.2 covers this in detail.

Mike, it’s easy to sit back and poke holes at others, such as saying I’m wrong. But the data is out there and publicly available, you just need to do the homework.

_________________
DISCLAIMER: I'm just a jaded engineer and my advice is worth exactly what you're paying for it...


Last edited on 04 Jan 2018, 13:47, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 13:40 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Source...read the report.

Be helpful and include a URL to the specific one you mean.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 14:40 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Source...the NTSB and the FAA. You should really read the report.

I did.

I didn't find a statement in the report that supported your statement:

"then after [the first few hours] the fixed wing E-AB accident rate is actually on par with GA on average."

Did I miss it, or is the above your interpretation of the report, not what was actually said?

I did find this statement:

"A large proportion of accidents occurs early in the operating life of a new E-AB aircraft, or shortly after being purchased by a new owner."

That is NOT saying later hours are equal to GA aircraft generally, though. I can see how such a statement might be misinterpreted, however.

Quote:
Mike, it’s easy to sit back and poke holes at others, such as saying I’m wrong.

Never said you were wrong, said I don't think you are right and asked for evidence.

Or to put it another way, I have not seen enough evidence to believe what you wrote.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 14:41 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12359
Post Likes: +11344
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict that no one will ever die in the crash of a homebuilt Raptor. ;)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 14:42 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/03/10
Posts: 1562
Post Likes: +1781
Company: D&M Leasing Houston
Location: Katy, TX (KTME)
Aircraft: CitationV/C180
Username Protected wrote:
I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict that no one will ever die in the crash of a homebuilt Raptor. ;)



Many will die whilst waiting for delivery however....


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2018, 16:31 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
I did find this statement:

"A large proportion of accidents occurs early in the operating life of a new E-AB aircraft, or shortly after being purchased by a new owner."

Within those accidents, fuel system malfunctions during the first flight are a particularly large proportion.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 09:25 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/28/17
Posts: 1206
Post Likes: +1180
Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
Username Protected wrote:
And it is important to note that experiental aircraft are not certified to a safety standard, nor are they required to comply with FAA aircraft safety standards - in fact, they're required to be placarded to show that "This aircraft does not comply with Federal safety regulations for standard aircraft".


Just because an E/AB aircraft is not required to comply with Federal safety safety standards does not mean it doesn't meet (or even exceed) those standards.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 09:33 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/16/15
Posts: 2867
Post Likes: +3575
Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
Username Protected wrote:
I did find this statement:

"A large proportion of accidents occurs early in the operating life of a new E-AB aircraft, or shortly after being purchased by a new owner."

Mike C.


Kind of interesting and seems reasonable, but would not the record of certified GA also be pretty rough if you looked at the first 50 hours time in type? Conversely if you excluded accidents of the first 50 hours TIT would not the GA accident rate also be much better? Seems like at least in some of the types I closely follow time in type seems to be one of the biggest factors in safety.

_________________
Chuck Ivester
Piper M600
Ogden UT


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 10:49 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/27/10
Posts: 331
Post Likes: +196
Location: GTU - Georgetown, Tx
Aircraft: 65 Deb C33, RV-6
Username Protected wrote:
I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict that no one will ever die in the crash of a homebuilt Raptor. ;)



Many will die whilst waiting for delivery however....


I don't care who you are -- that is funny :-)
_________________
B-25 co-pilot
RV6 Formation
Debonair
CFI/CFII/MEI
Washed up Fighter Pilot (F-4s, F-16s)


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 11:16 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 01/18/11
Posts: 7681
Post Likes: +3685
Location: Lakeland , Ga
Aircraft: H35, T-41B, Aircoupe
Safest plane never built


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 23:39 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 06/28/14
Posts: 977
Post Likes: +704
Location: Pleasanton , TX (KPEZ)
Aircraft: 1963 Bonanza P35
I really think this plane will fly in 2018 and some of them will be built. I don't see any indication of these guys slowing down or stopping. I have been watching the videos for a long time. The guys working on the project are for the most part the same... little turn over in the shop is good. They seem to have good funding behind the project from what I can tell, because they spend money like its going out of style and there is no indication thats an issue. The prototype is steadily progressing and every time they hit an obstacle they figure out a way to overcome it. Unless they discover some major issue with the prototype, that is insurmountable to fix or overcome this plane is going to be built. How many they will sell... who knows? What the final price will be... who knows? How many of the deposits will be pulled when the final numbers are released.... who knows? I think thats all fair to speculate on and this planes price point will certainly go up, and its performance numbers will probably come down. But I bet at least one of those with a deposit will stick it out and fly their raptor even if it significantly under preforms in the numbers department. I think if these guys were going to quit they would have already done it...


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2018, 23:46 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23612
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
They seem to have good funding behind the project from what I can tell, because they spend money like its going out of style and there is no indication thats an issue.

Red flag. They probably think "just get the proto flying and the money will roll in". How far from the truth that will be. Building and flying a prototype is about 5% of the project.

Then one day, money will be an issue and they will realize it should have been an issue from the start.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 11:42 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/10/14
Posts: 1730
Post Likes: +828
Location: Northwest Arkansas (KVBT)
Aircraft: TBM850
Username Protected wrote:
because they spend money like its going out of style...


I disagree with this, as they don't seem to be doing anything wasteful. Well funded and conservative are a good combination.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 12:13 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 490
Post Likes: +338
Aircraft: AA1B,PA28,PA18,CE500
Username Protected wrote:
And it is important to note that experiental aircraft are not certified to a safety standard, nor are they required to comply with FAA aircraft safety standards - in fact, they're required to be placarded to show that "This aircraft does not comply with Federal safety regulations for standard aircraft".


Just because an E/AB aircraft is not required to comply with Federal safety safety standards does not mean it doesn't meet (or even exceed) those standards.


Excluding the kits that are essentially exact copies of certified aircraft (super cub clone) I don’t think any E-AB plane would pass FAA certification. Lancair that had a lot of experience in the kit and design industry barely made it thru certification. This was a plane based on the ES. Aerodynamically nothing like the IV. The ES flies great. But still the Columbia ended up being a complete redesign.

But that’s fine. I see you have a velocity, so you enjoy the performance and flexibility of experimental. So do I. But to think they are just as well designed, tested or could pass isn’t looking at it objectively.

I love the way velocitys look. Sleek and graceful.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2018, 12:21 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 02/27/08
Posts: 3166
Post Likes: +1250
Location: Galveston, TX
Aircraft: Malibu PA46-310P
Username Protected wrote:
I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict that no one will ever die in the crash of a homebuilt Raptor. ;)


You could make that statement bulletproof by adding “no one will ever die in the crash of a Audi diesel powered, pressurized, 3600 hundred mile range, 250 kts raptor aircraft.”


Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 4045 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 ... 270  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.