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23 Apr 2021, 06:35 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 11:23 
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Really it's an alternator, rated 250 amps at 70v. I believe that's 17.5 kW.
Attachment:
84.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 11:36 
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Location: Nashville, TN
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It's DC vs AC.

In a DC airplane that's easy to do and certainly isn't going to power your house.

In a household application where the power supplied to your house is 230 VAC stepped down for most household appliances to 115VAC 3-phase power, 17.5 Kw is 17,500 volt-amps, or 152 items running 3.8 amps per hour. A 60 watt light bulb runs 0.50 amps.

(someone check my math, that's off the cuff while I'm on my phone and math in public).

That 17.5 KW generator in the first post on a pallet will produce 420 KW over a 24 hour day. According to U.S. Census the average house uses about 900-1,000 KWh per month, or about 30-35 KW per day.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
Really it's an alternator, rated 250 amps at 70v. I believe that's 17.5 kW.
Attachment:
84.jpg

It would take about 25 hp from your engine to generate 17.5 kw.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
Really it's an alternator, rated 250 amps at 70v. I believe that's 17.5 kW.
Attachment:
84.jpg

It would take about 25 hp from your engine to generate 17.5 kw.

...which is never going to be transmitted through the belt shown. At least not for long.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
Really it's an alternator, rated 250 amps at 70v. I believe that's 17.5 kW.
It would take about 25 hp from your engine to generate 17.5 kw.
It's a 750 hp PT6, it can afford 25 hp. And in icing conditions it's totally worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:18 
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Your profile showed a 36, 25 would be important hp there.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:23 
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Username Protected wrote:
...which is never going to be transmitted through the belt shown. At least not for long.

Ummm,,,

:scratch:

How then do any engines with belt-mounted alternators stay running?

If it's internally-built to generate 70 Volts (which is really quite reasonable for a DC system), why would it be a problem?

Pretty sure the FAA wouldn't sign off on it otherwise given their general loathing to approve anything for anyone these days, BWTHDIK.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
...which is never going to be transmitted through the belt shown. At least not for long.


All the Toro Dingos on the farm transfer 25hp just fine to twin hydraulic pumps just fine with a much smaller belt. The belts seem to last about as long as the motors, 1500hours or so.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 12:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
All the Toro Dingos on the farm transfer 25hp just fine to twin hydraulic pumps just fine with a much smaller belt. The belts seem to last about as long as the motors, 1500hours or so.

Compare the contact area of the belt & pulley on your pumps to that of the alternator shown. I'll bet it's much more.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 16:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
Really it's an alternator, rated 250 amps at 70v. I believe that's 17.5 kW.
Attachment:
84.jpg


PT6 in addition to the starter generator?

Just curious, what alternator part number is that?

What electrical system are you powering with it?


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 16:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
Compare the contact area of the belt & pulley on your pumps to that of the alternator shown. I'll bet it's much more.


Here is the Toro Dingo schematic

Image

The engine is 25hp at the crank, drives 3 pumps, one on the front of the engine (direct connection), two on the back via belt reduction from 3600rpm to 3000rpm at the pump. Runs 3600rpm full time. Belt is about 1 inch wide standard belt, costs about 40 bucks to replace. I looked over maintenance manual. Belt gets replaced every 400 hours. Never had one break and we abuse our Dingo fleet.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 17:56 
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Again, duty cycle
Your engine is rated 25hp. That doesn’t mean it produces max power all the time, far from it.
And from your description the belt takes at most 2/3 of the power.
Not that a belt can’t take power. There are belt drives for thousands of hp.
All I’m saying is that I am dubious of the photo alternator making a constant 200-something amps for hours on end needed for anti-ice as described.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 18:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
Again, duty cycle
Your engine is rated 25hp. That doesn’t mean it produces max power all the time, far from it.
And from your description the belt takes at most 2/3 of the power.
Not that a belt can’t take power. There are belt drives for thousands of hp.
All I’m saying is that I am dubious of the photo alternator making a constant 200-something amps for hours on end needed for anti-ice as described.


A while back I talked to Thermawing for an experimental I was considering.
The power draw is not constant. It works like boots; it "fires" to break the ice off by melting effectively a microscopic layer of ice attached to the wing. If the wing is constantly warmed what happens is the ice melts and dribbles back.
The key to the whole thing to work is to melt just enough to break the ice off, but have it refreeze in the air before it dribbles back onto the wing past the unprotected areas.

As a result; Thermawing used capacitors to store the energy to "fire"; max rate was around a few seconds but was considered extreme. Otherwise, the alternator would provide the full power just for the recharge time which was a few seconds. After that, the alternator is only providing enough juice to maintain charge, which is pretty minimal.

As for the system on Raptor; who knows?

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 20:29 
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Username Protected wrote:

A while back I talked to Thermawing for an experimental I was considering.
The power draw is not constant. It works like boots; it "fires" to break the ice off by melting effectively a microscopic layer of ice attached to the wing. If the wing is constantly warmed what happens is the ice melts and dribbles back.
The key to the whole thing to work is to melt just enough to break the ice off, but have it refreeze in the air before it dribbles back onto the wing past the unprotected areas.

As a result; Thermawing used capacitors to store the energy to "fire"; max rate was around a few seconds but was considered extreme. Otherwise, the alternator would provide the full power just for the recharge time which was a few seconds. After that, the alternator is only providing enough juice to maintain charge, which is pretty minimal.

As for the system on Raptor; who knows?

Tim


Not exactly how it works. The leading edge is permanently heated to melt the ice to refreeze above and below the leading edge.

There are two more zones, one above and one below that get heated rapidly to shed the refrozen ice and then allowed to freeze again. The system actually has a fairly high constant draw in addition to the capacitor power supply used to rapidly heat the shed zones.


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 Post subject: Re: Raptor Aircraft 5 Seat Pressurized 3,600 NM Range Die
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2019, 20:59 
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Joined: 10/26/16
Posts: 496
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Username Protected wrote:
Again, duty cycle
Your engine is rated 25hp. That doesn’t mean it produces max power all the time, far from it.
And from your description the belt takes at most 2/3 of the power.
Not that a belt can’t take power. There are belt drives for thousands of hp.
All I’m saying is that I am dubious of the photo alternator making a constant 200-something amps for hours on end needed for anti-ice as described.


Actually it does produce full power all the time. The throttle is either idle or full power. You know how small skid steers work.


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